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Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

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Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#81

Post by agentultra »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #74
munificent wrote: post #48

I was a game programmer at EA for eight years. > The real problem however is not that they are immature when they get in, but that too often they get out once they reach maturity, This is pretty spot-on. One of the main reasons I left the industry was because I got tired of it being perpetual amateur hour. I felt like I didn't know much and yet I often knew more than those around me. I worked on one game where more t…

>> The real problem however is not that they are immature when they get in, but that too often they get out once they reach maturity, > This is pretty spot-on. I've studiously avoided working for EA (they almost had me once, but I said no when they pulled a bait-and-switch on the project that convinced me to interview to begin with), but I've been in the industry for 20+ years, mostly working for smaller companies or…

Do you have a blog or link to your work? I'd be very interested in reading about the experiences of someone who has a successful "career" making games while providing for a family.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#82

Post by munificent »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #74
munificent wrote: post #48

I was a game programmer at EA for eight years. > The real problem however is not that they are immature when they get in, but that too often they get out once they reach maturity, This is pretty spot-on. One of the main reasons I left the industry was because I got tired of it being perpetual amateur hour. I felt like I didn't know much and yet I often knew more than those around me. I worked on one game where more t…

>> The real problem however is not that they are immature when they get in, but that too often they get out once they reach maturity, > This is pretty spot-on. I've studiously avoided working for EA (they almost had me once, but I said no when they pulled a bait-and-switch on the project that convinced me to interview to begin with), but I've been in the industry for 20+ years, mostly working for smaller companies or…

> I've studiously avoided working for EA

For what it's worth, I found work-life balance increased steadily during my tenure at EA. The whole ea_spouse thing brought a lot of attention to problems. It still wasn't great, but it was better than when I started.

When I left EA, I was working 40 hours a week reliably. This was in large part, though, because that was a high priority for me and I moved off game teams and onto shared tech stuff because it was less high-pressure, even though that wasn't ideal for my career.

> And Kickstarter is democratizing the music industry as well!

I'm really excited about Kickstarter too. However, even when it works well, I don't think you get much more than a living wage. I think that's OK, but it's worth keeping in mind that it isn't a golden ticket.

I also worry that the social structures around Kickstarter have not settled down yet. Right now, I think a lot of money coming in is based on novelty or optimism. As Kickstarter matures (and more projects fail) I think both of those will wear off. It can still work, and I hope it does, but it won't be as easy as it is right now.

> The biggest problem in games/music/movies is typically that you have to make them before you can sell them.

Yes, it's inevitable in any product where the initial cost is very high and the marginal cost is effectively zero. Digital content like games and movies one example. Drugs are another, I think. I wonder if oil drilling is similar?

It seems like in all of these cases, a consequence is conservatism in investment leading to missed opportunities.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#83

Post by incision »

Sounds about right.

The friends I've had spend time in games industry have either left or transitioned to design consulting for all the same reasons cited.

However, I tend to think this problem is in the process of solving itself through the continued rise of "indie" game development and slow collapse of studio tiles [1].

There are all sorts of great outlets for people who are so inclined make and publish games that didn't exist even 5 years ago.

Developers/designers don't have to buy into the established industry culture to make and consumers don't have to pay into it to play.

1: http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/1/3439738/the-state-of-games-...

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#84

Post by marze »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #52
saraid216 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. That kind of environment leads to a lot of prejudiced thinking. You see it happen in the rest of tech, too: people who have the screws twisted on them, willingly or not, cope one way or another... and most people cope by reinforcing their self-esteem with delusions of superiority. That's one reason why we have religious wars over operating systems and programming languages and tool sets that you don't see…

Two tangential points I want to hit quickly. First, most software developers are taught "computer science" (or an imitation of it) in their formal education, not engineering. Second, software is mostly not engineering. Engineering is very measurable. But software includes a lot of design and craftsmanship. If software dev. were restricted only to the portion that could reasonably be called pure engineering it would b…

So if it isn't science, and isn't engineering, what is it closest to in terms of other endeavors?

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#87

Post by snaky »

>Your average industry professional is a 31 year old white man with one to three years of experience

I wonder, where was that 31 year old professional all his first 28 years? And how could you call professional a man with three years of experience, let's leave a one year?

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#88

Post by neohaven »

marze wrote: post #84
InclinedPlane wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two tangential points I want to hit quickly. First, most software developers are taught "computer science" (or an imitation of it) in their formal education, not engineering. Second, software is mostly not engineering. Engineering is very measurable. But software includes a lot of design and craftsmanship. If software dev. were restricted only to the portion that could reasonably be called pure engineering it would b…

So if it isn't science, and isn't engineering, what is it closest to in terms of other endeavors?

Writing.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#89

Post by wonderzombie »

schoper wrote: post #11

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as a term of self-hatred leaves me feeling more than a little disgusted.

I wouldn't call it self-hatred. It's point out a glaring reality that's invisible to a lot white people. If they hadn't put that in the headline, it might otherwise have gone unremarked that it's mostly white people. Whiteness can be quite difficult to see if you are yourself white.

Put another way, it's not the whiteness itself that's objectionable, at least not exactly. It's the lack of diversity. It just so happens that the lack of diversity presently and historically manifests as a bunch of white dudes. And a great many white dudes just don't notice; for them, that's the "default."

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#90

Post by ianstallings »

This applies to start ups also. The mentality is that it's nothing but coding 12-14 hours a day and anything less is, well, less. I try to fight this type of thinking by showing how others have done it rationally and how it truly is just another engineering challenge that can be solved with proper techniques.

But what doesn't help is the hordes of people that seem to be invading the industry, yet again, in search of riches and just want to learn the bare minimum. Get in and get paid so they can get out. The analogy I often use is poker. For some it's just a way to strike it rich and the lure of those riches draws a lot of people in. But for some of us it's a way of life. We wake up in the middle of the night yearning for the game. And no matter how much we make we'll never walk away because we love the game so much. How can you explain that to someone who just wants to hit aces, scoop a pot, and then leave a "winner"?

Put simply - how can we bring rational thinking back to startups? How can we convince others that experience is important, engineering and architecture are important, tools are important, and it's not just some quest for riches?

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