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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#391

Post by randallsquared »

rayiner wrote: post #386
randallsquared wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution doesn't say who they're held by; the only reference to "right" in there is actually a place that calls out my error: it does grant one right, which is copyright/patent. Oddly. A document that might indicate who rights were considered to be held by is the Declaration of Independence, but it says "all men", which I would take to mean every human. Obviously not all the signers viewed it that way, given…

The Declaration of Independence has no legal significance. It is just a letter, and the prose is intended to be poetic (to justify violent revolution) rather than functional. Your comment about the U.S. not existing shows a misunderstanding of the nature of the Constitution. The Constitution is essentially a contract outlining the delegation of powers to the federal government from the sovereign state governments. Th…

> The Declaration of Independence has no legal significance.

No disagreement there; I only brought it up as something that "might indicate" what the framers were thinking when they failed to grant any rights in the Constitution.

On the rest, I'm no constitutional scholar; you may well be right on how this was viewed then.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#392

Post by ankitml »

rmc wrote: post #375
hobolobo wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Brits did actually do force feeding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Price Though there are/were certain conditions on when it could be ordered such as when the inmate has an eating disorder or becomes mentally incapacitated: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/493713.stm I believe that the inhumane treatment that went on in UK/NI was not systemic but a result of individuals acting of their own accord. G…

I was talking about that particular hunger strike in the 80s. Many died who didn't get force fed. That's not to say they never did it, nor will ever again, I was merely comparing that hunger strike to the one in the article. I do think a lot of the Northern Ireland stuff was institutional. Gerry-mandering of election results, police oppression, etc.

Why da faq are you arguing on this nitty gritty of UK? US cannot justify gitmo just on the basis of something that UK did sometime back. You cant change what UK did, let it be. Every country has its heritage, both contributions and black spots.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#393

Post by konstruktor »

scrapcode wrote: post #233

I know for a fact that much of these claims are completely wrong and, being told by a detainee, are completely biased. Detainee's that refuse meals are required to receive their nutrients in liquid form. They have the option to drink this themselves. When they refuse, they are put in the feeding chair which restrains their arms, legs, and waist. It does not restrain a detainees head whatsoever. When a detainee refuse…

This starts with a false assumption. There is absolutely no justification for force feeding a non-consenting person who is aware of the consequences of their actions.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#394

Post by ankitml »

mef wrote: post #286
davidw wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there are moderators who can and do kill stories, more or less according to the guidelines ( http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). If a completely democratic site is what you want, you want reddit.

Democratic Reddit, where votes can be bought for 20-for-$1 https://coinbase.com/checkouts/35297a275c385a75d231fd4a6edd5...

So this is more like real-world democracy than textbook democracy.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#396

Post by elliptic »

sigzero wrote: post #217
jeltz wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medieval inquisition was indeed a witch hunt in the figurative sense but it did not hunt witches. It was primary occupied with hunting heretics (particularly Cathars). Its involvement in hunting witches started in the late 15th century at the very end of the middle ages.

I think he was using "witch hunt" in a generic term like we use it today.

Well, in that case the analogy is virtually meaningless, since "witch hunts" have always occurred.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#397

Post by ankitml »

brown9-2 wrote: post #345
dantheman wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president can pardon them, the president can use private money to move them. The president can be on the news every night making this an issue.

Private money from where? Which account does that get drawn on? Are you saying that the president should have authority to order spending of non-government money?

He started a war on libya without congress approval, right?

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#398

Post by Wonderdonkey »

parfe wrote: post #364
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantana... Obama's second full day in office. How is that a reversal? Congress then blocked any and all money which the administration would need to take action to close the base. http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/196

This is the closest he's come to keeping his campaign pledges to reverse the idiocy of the Bush era, but he failed, and then he even reversed his own executive order in 2011. Like suspension of habeas rights, like warrantless wiretaps, like drone warfare, like the TSA, President Obama didn't make these things, but he still chooses to use them. A lot.

Obama was the only hope people like me saw for reversing the 9/11 death spiral, and he blew it. End the war in the Middle East? Naw, let's escalate it instead. Reform the Patriot Act? How about I reauthorize it as-is. End indefinite detention of Americans without trial? No, continue indefinite detentions without trial and/or execute Americans without a trial. Transparent government? How about secret laws instead. Stop rousting foreigners? Nope, let's ICE record numbers of immigrants. Veto NDAA? Sign NDAA! Veto CISPA?

The trends in the Obama administration are the exact opposite of what people voted for. His legacy is more power for ICE and TSA; more power for national security agencies; more intrusive government; more war; more unprincipled, reactionary policy making. Zero upside.

I get why people defend their candidates in the face of conflicting evidence. Obviously people believe their candidate, no matter how bad, is better than the alternative. But Obama's a lame duck. There's no reason to shield him or blame this on someone else who's already out of office, though don't get me wrong here: Bush was a truly horrible President. It doesn't solve the core problem, which is the we need a leader in 2016 who will lead us out of this spiral. Unfortunately neither party is worth a damn right now.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#399

Post by Camillo »

enraged_camel wrote: post #389
parfe wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantana... Obama's second full day in office. How is that a reversal? Congress then blocked any and all money which the administration would need to take action to close the base. http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/196

I never understood why people got mad at Obama for not closing Gitmo. The president is not the king. He/she still needs approval from Congress to get most shit done. In the case of Gitmo, his initiative got blocked by politicians who were too worried about what voting yes would mean for their own political careers. For anyone who actually understands politics, the failure to close Gitmo was not Obama's fault.

Then Obama was counting on many people not to understand politics when he chose to make promises on things he wouldn't have the power to change.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#400

Post by sequoia »

parfe wrote: post #363
sequoia wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statement that wars were started "without congressional approval" may be wrong. That said, I still do not believe that it's outside the president's power to shut down gitmo. As many other commenters here have pointed out, he could simply order marines to free those prisoners with no charges to Cuban soil; this would cost no money at all; congress would not be able to prevent it. Could the president not do this? Fu…

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ClosureOfGuantana... Obama issued the order to close the prison his second full day in office. Congress then blocked any funds whatsoever from being used to close the prison. http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/196 No, the president can't just release prisoners into Cuba because A) Cuba is a sovereign country and the US doesn't get to just deposit individ…

If this decision is so clearly and unequivocally not his to make, why did he promise to do it in the first place? Is he stupid or a liar? I don't think he's stupid.
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