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Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

penny-arcade.com

31–40 of 177 posts

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#31
post #16

I as well quit the industry because of this. While I never had it that bad (I knew I couldn't be productive after 8-9 hours so I just left at the time) nor was I ever 'attacked' for it, I can imagine I may have been overlooked on raises/promotions for it. But there is one good thing I would say about the industry. You LEARN ALOT. C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation and the intrinsics of low-level hardware, all in a days work.…

"C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation" is "a lot" to learn in a career?

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#32
post #6

I really, truly, honestly believe that above 9 hours a day for an extended period of time actually ends up hurting your development efforts. You want developers who come into work and WORK. Not work a little, check a little HN, work a little, eat, check a little Reddit. Living at work forces coping mechanisms like this on you because you really only have a finite amount of creative attention.

You'll find no disagreement anywhere on that point. The nature of the games industry is not based on any rational basis - the overwork is cultural, deeply ingrained, and completely irrational. People who are overworked for extended periods have negative productivity - you can't throw a rock without hitting a dozen studies that have proven this decade after decade. This sort of management and process is pure cargo cul…

Doesn't look like it'll happen any time soon. Many graduates seem to be doing degree courses focused around games rather than general CS.

The number of games jobs as a % that I see advertised is pretty high as well.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#33
The games industry is populated by young, inexperienced people and that has two effects:

1. A belief that any obstacle can be overcome, any deadline met

2. One tool in the toolbox: I can personally make this happen by writing enough clever code

There is very little:

a. Has this been done before?

And even when that is present, a total absence of

b. How long did it take them?

As is said in the article, management selects people from the first group, and actively punishes anyone who asks questions.

Now, this latter may be true in any large industry where there's more money than sense, but so far my experience is that only in the games industry is this coupled with insane hours and a hit-driven industry that makes failure a guarantee of layoffs.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#34
post #31
post #16

I as well quit the industry because of this. While I never had it that bad (I knew I couldn't be productive after 8-9 hours so I just left at the time) nor was I ever 'attacked' for it, I can imagine I may have been overlooked on raises/promotions for it. But there is one good thing I would say about the industry. You LEARN ALOT. C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation and the intrinsics of low-level hardware, all in a days work.…

"C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation" is "a lot" to learn in a career?

No, I mentioned in a day. Sometimes you mess with all that kind of code in a day (I mentioned C and C++ as base)

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#36
post #4

This comes down to supply and demand - people want to work on games, and don't see a way to get a experience and/or a paycheck out of it outside the large companies. This isn't weird, because people aren't rational - I know plenty of people who took degrees in fields where the supply of labor outnumbers the jobs available, and thus work less than ideal hours, for less pay and more abuse than they should. I'd love for…

I think that's changing a bit, though. There are a lot more independant developers and people who are skipping the mainstream publishing/dev-studio industry and finding better success. And if they're both irrational choices, why not?

Some examples: the game that swept the GDC Choice awards was Journey, made by a small independent studio with an exclusivity deal rather than a more traditional publishing relationship. Minecraft is one of the best-selling games of all time: the XBox 360 version alone sold more than Gears of War 2, to give you a point of comparison. The average indie game won't see this level of success, of course, but neither will the average big-publishing mainstream game.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#37
post #31
post #16

I as well quit the industry because of this. While I never had it that bad (I knew I couldn't be productive after 8-9 hours so I just left at the time) nor was I ever 'attacked' for it, I can imagine I may have been overlooked on raises/promotions for it. But there is one good thing I would say about the industry. You LEARN ALOT. C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation and the intrinsics of low-level hardware, all in a days work.…

"C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation" is "a lot" to learn in a career?

Compared to the fundamentally CRUD-like nature of most startups?

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#38

As someone with 5 years experience in the industry, this article is spot on the money for everything I experienced. It's a huge problem, both by discriminating against people unwilling or unable to put in ridiculous hours, and by driving away those talented women and men who are finally becoming experienced experts when they become so burned out they have to leave the industry. I worked in games for 5 years. I no lon…

I'm a software engineering student about to start an internship(Paid, 4 months) at a major game studio. I am considering applying for a job once I complete the internship if everything goes well. I would like to see if the studio where I will work has a decent workflow. If not I would be willing to tough it out as a generalist programmer while trying to apply to other jobs that interest me in another industry. The id…

Keep in mind that your job might look bad in your resume. Given the bad rep gaming companies have, only people that are inexperienced/not that good, or clueless go to the industry.

I know you have to start your career somewhere, but keep that in mind.

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#39
post #16

I as well quit the industry because of this. While I never had it that bad (I knew I couldn't be productive after 8-9 hours so I just left at the time) nor was I ever 'attacked' for it, I can imagine I may have been overlooked on raises/promotions for it. But there is one good thing I would say about the industry. You LEARN ALOT. C/C++/AI/Shaders/Animation and the intrinsics of low-level hardware, all in a days work.…

There may be a bit of a filter here on HN: it's very startup web dev heavy, so you won't see many people wasting their time (yes, it would be a waste of time for them) going down to the hardware level. Try working in a more applied domain, such as industrial, where real-time low-level hacking is a daily occurrence, and you will find many extremely competent low-level programmers, who don't work insane hours, because it's more important to get the code right (lives depend on it), than it is to keep to some market driven schedule. Sure, it's not as glamorous, but it pays the bills. It also doesn't very often have the challenges of maintaining one codebase across multiple platforms, but you learn pretty quickly when each new project is a whole different architecture, with a different assembler, IDE, buses, memory model, register layout, etc, etc. On top of which you have to know your domain at least well enough to get requirements from your users . . .

Re: Why your games are made by childless, 31 year old white men

#40
post #11

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as a term of self-hatred leaves me feeling more than a little disgusted.

Yeah, agreed, it was not clear why calling out White was useful in the title.

"Youth" and "maleness" were relevant. Younger people tend to be more "desperate" and willing to trade time and health to "make it" in their career of choice. They are also less likely to have young children. Males tend to be more passionate about the gaming industry.

But what is it about White people that makes them more likely to go into the gaming industry? Nothing, right? So it's not relevant to call it out in the title.

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