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Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

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Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#371

Post by rmc »

vansteen wrote: post #342
berntb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an obvious analysis: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc. It is a reaction built into democracy, if you…

"Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc." ... Can you precise? I can talk about something I know. I'm french. France got problem with islamic terrorism in the 90's. France is having problem with terrorism for the last 10 years. France has done two wars in the last 3 years (Lybia, Mali and still do stuff in Afganistan).…

Can you precise?

Look at the UK & Northern Ireland.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#372

Post by kunai »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

Don't waste time pushing the blame on Presidents, they're but sock puppets for Congress.

The real problem is the legislature. Fill Congress with enough third-party seats, and maybe, just maybe we can get out of this mess and take back our country from the filth that runs it right now.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#373

Post by StavrosK »

elorant wrote: post #368
StavrosK wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is patently false. I'm Greek, and I don't know any Greek (except maybe some right-wing fascists) who believes that their country was the best. Mindsets range from "it's shit" to "it might not be great, but it's my country". Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us, and "you can't do this to me, I'm an American" sounds ludicrous. The fact that everyone considers their country…

Everyone in Greece believes that our country was the best ever. How many times have you heard something along the lines "when we used to have civilization they were eating from the trees". We believe in a common heritage and we think that because our ancestors were pioneers in so many aspects, from mathematics to theater and from philosophy to commerce that the whole world owes us some (actually a lot) respect. The m…

> Everyone in Greece believes that our country was the best ever. How many times have you heard something along the lines "when we used to have civilization they were eating from the trees".

That doesn't follow. The fact that some people say "we were civilized before you" doesn't mean they think it's the best country in the world. Not to mention that nobody even really says that, unless they're looking for a cheap insult. It's the equivalent to the American "we'll bomb the shit out of you".

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#374

Post by hackinthebochs »

smokinjoe wrote: post #356
gitmothrow wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only I could be as brave as you.

It's not being brave, it's being responsible for your own actions. If you didn't use a throwaway, I'm sure you'd also do a much better job at making your comment a little more eloquent instead of just aggressive and angry. Posting with a throwaway shows me that you probably don't even 100% believe what you just said.

This is stupid. There are plenty of reasons to post potentially controversial things anonymously, the same reasons against placing a darwin-fish on your car in overly religious regions. None of which have to do with cowardice.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#375

Post by rmc »

hobolobo wrote: post #282
rmc wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British didn't do forced feeding, but I'd hardly say it was great. As well as hunger strikes the prisoners also protested wearing prison uniforms. So the staff didn't empty their toilets. The prisoners smeared their feces on the walls. I'd recommend the film Hunger , it's a bit raw.

Well, the Brits did actually do force feeding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Price Though there are/were certain conditions on when it could be ordered such as when the inmate has an eating disorder or becomes mentally incapacitated: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/493713.stm I believe that the inhumane treatment that went on in UK/NI was not systemic but a result of individuals acting of their own accord. G…

I was talking about that particular hunger strike in the 80s. Many died who didn't get force fed. That's not to say they never did it, nor will ever again, I was merely comparing that hunger strike to the one in the article.

I do think a lot of the Northern Ireland stuff was institutional. Gerry-mandering of election results, police oppression, etc.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#376

Post by mattkopecki »

skyraider wrote: post #5
lbarrow wrote: post #2

The defenders of Gitmo in this era will be remembered by our descendants with the same shame and disgust we feel when remembering the slave holders and segregationists of the previous eras.

I hope that the defenders of the legal theories that allow people to be held without trial for many years get their fair share of the blame. Gitmo itself is bad, but the legal theories that let almost anyone be held there without due process are worse. I understand that it looks bad if people released from custody in Gitmo return to action in 'violent non-state actor' groups. But is looking bad in the media worth hum…

> But is looking bad in the media worth human dignity?

Of course not. But, is you looking bad in the media worth someone else's human dignity? That's a much easier sell.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#377

Post by berntb »

mehta wrote: post #198
berntb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an obvious analysis: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc. It is a reaction built into democracy, if you…

Actually, that's not completely true. afaik, India - which is one of the largest democracies in the world follows the legal process in almost all the terror related cases. The fact that they try to adapt their laws to keep up with terrorism is a different story.

Yeah, India is weird. But a democracy with that kind of fraction of the population in total poverty (not to mention the corruption) is not going to react like others.

France, as someone else noted, is also different. My model do seem to work for Europe (afaik re GB, Spain, Italy, Germany.)

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#378

Post by sigzero »

utunga wrote: post #290
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #17

Gitmo was the first thing that clued me that I had made a mistake voting for Obama's promises (not that McCain would have ever gotten it instead!). It was such a complete reversal that I immediately knew his promises were completely worthless. I appreciate that there may be anger outs people in Gitmo, but they have every right to a trial I have. The double standard of what human rights mean if you are a US citizen an…

This is not a situation where we should be outraged at a president breaking his promise (yawn), but a case of an executive order not being carried out. We should not gloss over the fact that Obama's 'promise' (or rather, executive order) to close Gitmo came after the election. One of his very first acts as president in fact. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/20/obamas-first... The question we must ask is w…

The same people that prevented it from closing, Congress.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#380

Post by berntb »

fakeer wrote: post #188
berntb wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is an obvious analysis: The idea with terrorism against democracies is to scare the living daylight out of voters in a country. The politicians in those democracies want to win the next election do everything to stop the terror. Afaik, most every democracy that had a serious terrorist problem over years threw out the law book -- UK, Germany, Israel, Spain, USA, etc. It is a reaction built into democracy, if you…

No, I really don't know any better way but this way that you are supposedly telling others to accept as 'al right' is not a a way at all. It's not even democracy. And if you keep doing[1] this - detaining innocents and keeping them in the vacuum for years without a trial and without letting them know what is their crime, if tall; and killing hundreds of children in one drone strike(even though your country's Sec.OS w…

>>killing hundreds of children in one drone strike

Hundreds of children? Why? When? How -- where they put in a pile?!

>>you are no longer in a position to drone the shit out of entire villages of children and women at your whims(very soon)

The point with drone strikes is that they are targeted, not like artillery which do wipe out villages, etc.

I stopped reading. Please increase your trolling quality.

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