Gitmo Is Killing Me • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#271

Post by betterunix » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:04 PM UTC

ollysb wrote: post #266

Locke1689 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that to close Guantanamo, you need funding to a least move the prisoners to another facility. Introducing them to the justice system would require the same. As every American should know, Congress holds the purse strings here and has denied said request. The President has no power here.

There is another option, keep them in Guantanamo but improve conditions to at least normal prison standards in the US. I can't believe that would be more expensive than maintaining their current regime.

Sounds like you are proposing that we ignore the fact that they never faced a legal proceeding, and just give them fluffier pillows while we hold them indefinitely.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#272

Post by mpyne » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:05 PM UTC

r0s wrote: post #79

cmsmith wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending gitmo, but why wouldn't we remember its defenders the same way we remember those who have suspended habeas corpus in previous eras [1]? [1] Abraham Lincoln : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_Sta...

Maybe Civil War is a slightly different context, just throwing that out there.

Perhaps, but America is still operating under the context of two massive skyscrapers plummeting to the ground from an attack carried out with almost military precision. It's not as if Bush Jr. just woke up one day and decided that it was time to whip up some secret prisons. So if "context" is a defense then there's at least a little of it to spread around here as well.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#273

Post by gitmothrow » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:06 PM UTC

jpxxx wrote: post #52

Hi, future generations! Political prisoners are being raped with food intubators to prevent themselves from committing suicide in America's secret torture prison, with the express consent and approval of President Obama, the American Congress, and the numerical majority of the American people. Love, 2013

Dear future generations,

Clueless middle class Western programmers on Hacker News believed everything some guy in prion said and thought they understood national security realities better than the president of the US.

And they made a bunch of brave comments. Much karma was exchanged.

Love, 2013

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#274

Post by jonaldomo » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:07 PM UTC

I just sent my congressman an email outlining that I would like to see everybody given a trial and either deported or moved to a federal prison.

I would recommend that others reach out to their representatives and do the same. I imagine that if we, the people, do not make any noise about this then we are going to get more of the same.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#275

Post by betterunix » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:09 PM UTC

Locke1689 wrote: post #51

mattstreet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I think he could put a bit more public pressure on them then. I really don't hear him bringing it up too often.

It's in his comments on every appropriations bill. You just don't care. Let's all be honest: we don't think about Guantanamo. When people bring it up we'll hem and haw and say, "gee, that's just terrible," but we don't give a shit. Take it out of the spotlight and it may as well not exist.

That might have something to do with the fact that we have problems to deal here. The prisoners at Guantanamo might seem like a bigger deal if we did not have millions of prisoners who were never tried by a jury in the USA. We might actually care about this particular Obama campaign promise if there were not so many other broken promises.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#276

Post by dspillett » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:11 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #168

dspillett wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need funding. Just send them home. They would immediately try take legal action against the American administration through any and every international court available. Having been detained without sufficient evidence there is a case to answer, the US and their cohorts (let us not forget that several governments including ours in the UK have been shown to be complicit in rendition actions that deliberatel…

That doesn't make what's happening the right thing to do... Well, if we just summarily execute them, then we don't need to take care of them... It's the fiscally responsible thing to do. I mean, war crimes are war crimes.

I'm not arguing that it is right in any way - just that the "if we just X it won't require any cost/effort" was a slightly naive PoV. My wording may not have made that clear.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#277

Post by jussij » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:14 PM UTC

jussij wrote: post #267

josscrowcroft wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The missing amendment: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Americans are created equal..."

All me/women are created equal but in reality some are more equal than others. As always history repeats :( Edit: It truly disappoints me how human rights always run a long second to personal interest.

Further: Given a big enough of a profit it is easy to turn a blind eye. That simple fact is a massive problem for humanity going forward. Greed before humanity is now a reality.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#278

Post by pavanky » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:14 PM UTC

vxNsr wrote: post #134

pavanky wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know who else did hunger strikes ? Some old chap named Gandhi.

Nice! Gandhi also preached and practiced something called "Peaceful Protest" this guy is accused of "associating with"/guarding UBL.

Firstly, Osama (not Usama) Bil Laden.

Secondly, 11 years without trial or even a concrete charge against "an accused terrorist" would be something USA and its citizens would be appalled about if Russia or China did so to their "terrorists".

Thirdly, I am against hunger strikes when they can be avoided. Simply because they can turn political and in turn can be abused. Gandhi did abuse it a bit. Indian politicians and activists do it a lot. But eleven years of being held without solid evidence or being charge is just fucked up. This is being done out of desperation and fatigue rather than ideology.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#279

Post by Djehngo » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:14 PM UTC

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #261

potatolicious wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tenure doesn't work this way. The whole idea about tenure is to give academics the freedom to pursue things that are controversial to the public - i.e., you can research controversial things without being tossed out by the angry mob. You can afford to go full-bore on your research rather than play politics and PR with the public. Tossing one tenured professor out is a simple thing. After all like you said, it's not w…

Violating international law against torture is not "controversial", it's criminal .

He will be classified as a criminal when and if the courts convict him as one. Until then what he did is irrelevant to his tenure due to the concerns raised by potatolicious.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#280

Post by dspillett » Mon, Apr 15, 2013, 1:17 PM UTC

netfire wrote: post #252

dspillett wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need funding. Just send them home. They would immediately try take legal action against the American administration through any and every international court available. Having been detained without sufficient evidence there is a case to answer, the US and their cohorts (let us not forget that several governments including ours in the UK have been shown to be complicit in rendition actions that deliberatel…

The interview in the story claims to be reported by the prisoner's lawyers. What prevents them from taking legal action now? What changes if their client is released?

By my understanding, their layers are pretty hamstrung. That they have them is something, but their arguments for presentation of evidence, fair trial, rights as stated in the Geneva convention, and so forth, are for the most part unsuccessful - usually falling to a simple response of "the national good" which comes back to the circular argument "present evidence of that risk to (inter)national interests", "we can't do that, it would be a risk to (inter)national interests".

Right now they still have "enemy combatant status" and are not in a position where they can push their defence any further or be helped by their own governments and/or legal systems (if said systems would in fact help: some would, some wouldn't). If they were freed without charge then they have a case for unfair detainment (where now any such claim will be replied to with "they haven't been charged yet, that might change") and if they were charged there would be something for them to try make a case against (where now it is someone's un-evidenced word against their's, neither side having much legal standing so the people holding the keys "win").