Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gitmo Is Killing Me

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 539 posts

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#201

Post by ctoth »

pyre wrote: post #63
trimbo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guantanamo has nothing to do with congress. It was effectively authorized in this 2001 executive order: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/mo-111301.htm

Rescinding that executive order doesn't make magic happen. There is the process of closing down and what to do with the prisoners that matters. It's sounding like Congress is tying the President's hands by restricting his ability to use funds (funds that Congress authorizes) towards those goals. If you're in the US and you want this to happen, I would look towards your representatives in Congress, and research these…

I find it interesting that you referenced http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legali... at a time in the United States when two states have in fact legalized Marijuana. I think this simply highlights the point that change for the better is possible if the people want it enough. What does this mean for Gitmo? Could we apply the same sort of sidestep? I.E. a small forward-thinking community with a not terribly overworked prosecutor petitions to have them tried there? As I remember from back in 2009, the biggest issue was that our congresscritters were screaming "Not in my back yard!" in regards to the evil terrorists, which when you think about it from their perspective is quite a reasonable thing to do. Are there any places here in the U.S. that would actually take and try the Gitmo detainees? (gotta love Newspeak... prisoners)

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#202

Post by vxNsr »

salgernon wrote: post #148
vxNsr wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! Gandhi also preached and practiced something called "Peaceful Protest" this guy is accused of "associating with"/guarding UBL.

If he is accused, then surely discovery and a trial are in order. Even nazis got trials.

Yeah, nazis got a trial .... after the war, but when does a war end? When both sides agree to end hostilities.

So as soon as Al-Qaeda agrees to end hostilities all those in Gitmo will either be freed or tried. This is life not some stupid movie or game, we don't get "do-overs" and "I'm sorry"'s. If you associate with a regime that another stronger power thinks is wrong you're gonna have a bad time. (and the UN allows it)

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#203

Post by hobolobo »

rmc wrote: post #163
PeterisP wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In EU, a number of ministers have been disgraced enough to be thrown out of politics when their cooperation with USA "extraordinary rendition" came known. Where is the outrage in USA about Gitmo - which high-ranking officials have resigned in shame (or been thrown out for being shameless) about keeping these torture centers?

Sure, and some countries had their own Gitmos. The UK had hunger strikes and imprisonment without trial during their own civil war in Northern Ireland. It's not as black and white as "USA bad, EU good".

Whilst internment was a pretty nasty thing, I don't think that what went on in British prisons is comparable to what goes on in Guatanamo Bay.

The point was that whilst nowhere is perfectly just and or free, there is the perception that the USA promotes itself as being so.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#205

Post by vxNsr »

sgpl wrote: post #147
vxNsr wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again these are things he is claiming, I haven't done any research into his situation and I doubt anyone here has either. All I'm saying is that taking the word of someone who is in prison for possible terrorism is a mistake. Clearly there was someone who felt this dude was dangerous or else they wouldn't have flown him halfway around the world to "sit in limbo" there are prisons in Afghanistan and Iraq and it's…

TL:DR: This dude was at the wrong place at the wrong time; and unless the US Government can prove otherwise, they should either release him, or if he is a terrorist, it would be a net-win if they just let him die of hunger (As their reputation w.r.t Gitmo has already been sullied). -- In a parallel universe, I claim that you are committing conspiracy to overthrow the reigning King. You say you were just walking by th…

Cute story but unless you know something I don't about his case which you're not sharing then it's just that... a cute story.

If that's what happened well it sucks to be him but technically under the Geneva Convention and current laws of war, the US is allowed to hold him until the war ends at which point it must try him before a court (which can be a military tribunal) or trade him for it's own soldiers who are being held as POWs (which doesn't really happen because Al-Qaeda murders most prisoners).

Also small quibble with your story, he's been held for less than 10 years not more than 20. He gets normal food and can talk with fellow inmates and his guards, he is not urinated upon nor does he claim he was tortured, aside from being force fed. He does have access to all sorts of entertainment, so there isn't quite 1:1 parity here.

And for the record: a hunger strike (to death), like suicide is not I repeat not EVER an acceptable form of protest. Suicide is a cop-out, and a principle =/= a life.

a life >>>>>>> a principle.

To take your life in a form of protest is to admit you are wrong.

Also someone just posted a link to his Dossier and this guy is far from innocent: He admitted to fighting for Al-Qaida, he is mentioned in Al-Qaida documentation, regarding UBL.

So there you have it: he wasn't "walking in the forest to check out wildlife".

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#206

Post by kybernetikos »

StavrosK wrote: post #184
rmc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do. All countries claim to be the best.

That is patently false. I'm Greek, and I don't know any Greek (except maybe some right-wing fascists) who believes that their country was the best. Mindsets range from "it's shit" to "it might not be great, but it's my country". Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us, and "you can't do this to me, I'm an American" sounds ludicrous. The fact that everyone considers their country…

I think the history of Europe has resulted in a lot of Europe knowing how much evil can and has been done under the banner of 'my country is the best in the world', and rightly becoming very skeptical about that kind of attitude.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#207

Post by yardie »

madebylaw wrote: post #195
vxNsr wrote: post #76

I think the most important part about this OpEd is the comments appearing here and elsewhere: Lots of righteous indignation for this poor fellow who claims that he's completely innocent of any charges brought against him and if he could only talk to someone they would understand. He feels the need to kill himself to prove a point, such conviction. What do they say about a prisoner and his crime? oh yeah: there's no s…

It doesn't look like anyone on this thread has even tried to look for what this man is accused of doing and why he's in Gitmo in the first place. You can find a dossier from the US DoD of this man at the NYTimes' own website: http://projects.nytimes.com/guantanamo/detainees/43-samir-na... tl;dr: Member of al-Qaida, bodyguard of Osama, fought in the front lines against US and coalition forces, consistently lied to int…

> I'm not sure what kind of court he would be 'tried' in considering he's not a US citizen.

I wasn't aware that to be tried in court citizenship is a requirement.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#208

Post by StavrosK »

kybernetikos wrote: post #206
StavrosK wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is patently false. I'm Greek, and I don't know any Greek (except maybe some right-wing fascists) who believes that their country was the best. Mindsets range from "it's shit" to "it might not be great, but it's my country". Seeing Americans in movies go "best country in the world!" sounds absurd to us, and "you can't do this to me, I'm an American" sounds ludicrous. The fact that everyone considers their country…

I think the history of Europe has resulted in a lot of Europe knowing how much evil can and has been done under the banner of 'my country is the best in the world', and rightly becoming very skeptical about that kind of attitude.

Maybe, although I'm probably too young to be directly aware of that. I just grew up that way.

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#209

Post by waffle_ss »

techsupporter wrote: post #112
ck2 wrote: post #10

Obama could order it closed tomorrow. Congress could refuse to fund that action but it would still be ordered closed and his hands would be a tiny bit cleaner. But he likes his drones and gitmo now, so that's pretty much it until Hillary becomes president and I think she likes the idea of gitmo too.

January 22nd, 2009: "EXECUTIVE ORDER -- REVIEW AND DISPOSITION OF INDIVIDUALS DETAINED AT THE GUANTÁNAMO BAY NAVAL BASE AND CLOSURE OF DETENTION FACILITIES By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, in order to effect the appropriate disposition of individuals currently detained by the Department of Defense at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base (Guantánamo)…

You're leaving out the part where he restarts military trials again, a few months after your referenced executive order stopped them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8052999.stm

Re: Gitmo Is Killing Me

#210

Post by davidw »

serf wrote: post #191
facorreia wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not the kind of content I come to Hacker News for.

the article, or the opinion espoused by the commenter you replied to? In other words, you come to HN for one aspect of the Political world , and not all of them? Myself, I don't come to HN for ANYTHING in this thread. It's all interesting, in it's own right, but has little to do with 'hacking'. But, then again, civil liberties are a set of issues that can broadly affect us all.. maybe that was the grand position of w…

> But, then again, civil liberties are a set of issues that can broadly affect us all

If HN's front page were open to anything and everything, and links were voted for based on their importance in the real world, the actual Hacker News content would be completely buried. The real world is far more important than most of what's on Hacker News, so paradoxically, if we want to maintain the quality and focus of HN, real world articles like this need to be excluded, even if we all agree they are very important.

Post reply on HN