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Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

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Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#41

Post by lukethomas »

hluska wrote: post #37
chriswilliams wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Richard, I disagree. "Lean startup" (I've only skimmed, not read) is all about teaching coders to sell. Correct me if I'm wrong, no code should be written unless there is market demand. The challenge is not selling ONCE you have a solid product, it's going from NOTHING to something. Chris

First, if you haven't read it, how do you know what it's about?? Second, did you skim over anything about the build-measure-learn loop? If so, let's say that you have an idea, build a first (completely fake) version, and get it in front of people. The next step would be to build something that works, right? If you're completely non-technical, how do you find people to take you to that step (and to do it elegantly eno…

The point is that unless someone is paying your bills, you need to charge from the very beginning. It's supply/demand equation - your goal from the beginning should be to determine the demand, make sales, and fill the need with your offering.

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#43

Post by thedufer »

I think there's a pretty simple reason that a software person is more likely to be successful than a sales person. The software person can find sales people - the opposite is not generally true.

If you need to hire a sales person, and the candidate sells himself, you're in pretty good shape. He's obviously got some of the skills - he may not be the best, but he'll be worth hiring.

If you're a non-technical person looking to hire technical people, you're fighting an uphill battle. First, technical people are currently in higher demand. Its hard to find them in the first place. Next, you have very little ability to evaluate their skills. Finally, the range of abilities in technical people is larger than in most other fields, which amplifies the problem of not being able to evaluate candidates' skills.

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#44

Post by thetrumanshow »

chriswilliams wrote: post #33
thetrumanshow wrote: post #21

It is a fairly recent development that the tech industry has acquired ways to make building a v1.0 easier. And the salespeople are looking around now, clearly able to tell the extent to which you can execute v1.0 with C-Level talent, and wondering why so many companies are still run by software people. The answer I believe is: because this all used to be much harder, and you had to rely on your engineers to pull you…

100% Agree. Chris

Don't get complacent though, Chris :). Technology is leverage and those who wield it (i.e. those closer to where the rubber meets the road) will have the potential to stay ahead of the game on average... though most will choose not to employ it.

Engineers can typically simply stay on-par with changing technology and in-effect be moving up market. What is changing fortunes right now is that innovation has stalled in software, and everyone is simultaneously catching up to the early innovators.

Once the market shifts to another platform/technology/methodology, we'll be kicking your ass again... by default. :).

That said, I'd love to have a gutsy sales guy in my corner as a mentor. Drop me a PM.

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#45

Post by super-serial »

chriswilliams wrote: post #29
nbouscal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Salespeople fundamentally do not create. For those of us who are in technology not to build a 'successful' company or pad our bank accounts, but rather to create new things, none of what this guy is talking about really has any relevance.

Disagree. I have bills to pay, and this means selling.

Some people are different. For example - I work a $10/hr part-time job for bills.

I could get a programming job since I have a CS degree and a few years development experience... but instead I choose to work a non-programming part-time job while coding my startup. I've been coding it for 6 months without showing anyone my demo. (it's a big project)

If I get investors this summer or not... I'm committed to "my vision" for the next 3 years. Bills aren't too hard to pay if you live minimally. (e.g. I don't own a cellphone)

"We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life. All that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about." - Albert Einstein

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#46

Post by craigching »

chriswilliams wrote: post #28
apapli wrote: post #18

Seriously, this article made front page from someone who openly admits he is not from the software industry yet questions how it operates? Simply put: Software companies aren't all the same. Some sell to consumers (B2C), others to businesses (B2B), and others sell to both. You won't find many B2C companies with sales people, due to the cost of sale outweighing the return from one customer. Oppositely you won't find m…

Apapi, Agreed, all software companies are different. There is also a huge distinction between software-to-software sales (where the product design is more important) and software-to-outside-world sales. Most of our customers pay with CHECKS, yes, checks. They aren't software people so the design doesn't need to as good in the beginning. Chris

>> Agreed, all software companies are different.

To a certain extent, there is a lot in common in the software industry whether you're selling to the consumer market, the enterprise market or the smb market.

>> There is also a huge distinction between software-to-software sales (where the product design is more important) and software-to-outside-world sales.

I'm not 100% sure I understand, are you talking about consumer software (software-to-outside-world) and enterprise software (software-to-software sales)?

Because marketing can be different, agreed, but development of the product is not that different. Unless you're trying to talk about internal apps vs. products ?

>> Most of our customers pay with CHECKS, yes, checks. They aren't software people so the design doesn't need to as good in the beginning.

Not sure how someone pays for software matters, care to explain?

Sorry, but you don't seem to really understand software product development, neither from the sales side, the marketing side, nor the engineering side. Not from the post itself nor from your comments. But I guess you say that up front so "it's ok" ... ? ... I guess?

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#47

Post by thedufer »

chriswilliams wrote: post #27
richardjordan wrote: post #14

We tried this before, as an industry. It didn't work. There's a reason investors pattern match away from sales people as founder & CEO of a startup. Sales people are often too good at selling themselves and not so good at getting product out the door. Selling ahead of the curve right up until the point you've burned your market with missed ship dates. Having done both sales (taken product to market leading position f…

Hey Richard, I disagree. "Lean startup" (I've only skimmed, not read) is all about teaching coders to sell. Correct me if I'm wrong, no code should be written unless there is market demand. The challenge is not selling ONCE you have a solid product, it's going from NOTHING to something. Chris

> The challenge is not selling ONCE you have a solid product, it's going from NOTHING to something.

That kind of mentality is exactly how we ended up with the dot-com bubble. For a couple years, everyone who wanted to got from nothing to something. Remind me what happened next?

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#48

Post by TheCoelacanth »

chriswilliams wrote: post #34
jgilliam wrote: post #32

There are tons of software companies run by sales people...they just all fail.

I'd have to disagree with that. To quote Steve Blank himselve, no software ever fails because it can't be build. You can build whatever software you want. Software companies fail because they can't generate cash.

> To quote Steve Blank himselve, no software ever fails because it can't be build. You can build whatever software you want.

Bullshit. Budget and schedule overruns are endemic to the software industry. There are plenty of companies that fail because they can't deliver on the technology they promised.

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#49

Post by thedufer »

apapli wrote: post #19
abc_lisper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ellison was a programmer. Benioff was a programmer too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Benioff#Career Given the position Microsoft was in 2000, when Mr.B took charge, I don't think their position could be much worse.

True, but I expect all three spend a fair portion of their time selling nowadays. Sales is a collection of activities, not necessarily a full time role.

But isn't the article about sales people starting businesses? Those people would undoubtably have been called programmers, not sales people, when they started (except Ballmer, who didn't start a company at all).

Re: Why Aren't Salespeople Running Software Companies?

#50

Post by craigching »

chriswilliams wrote: post #25
magicarp wrote: post #12

> I'm brand new to the software industry and while I know nothing about software... Then why are you giving advice on how to run software companies?

Hey Magic Carp, Chris Williams here, I wrote the article :) The reason that I feel I can provide advice is because I started a software company that has been profitable every step of the way, and now have ~400k in revenue in year 1. The fact that I did not come from the software industry was A HUGE advantage, because most of the advice given is horrible. Chris

I suppose that listening to a sales person can get you 400k revenue in a year, just rote following what one customer says can do that for you, but is 400k really worth sacrificing more visionary goals? The question that really has to be asked is "if I spend X amount of time on this one feature and that leads to Y amount of revenue, is that worth sacrificing Z revenue down the road on an engineering/product management defined feature that is more strategic? Don't necessarily sacrifice the sale of now for the lost sale of the future.

Real question, is 400k enough for you?

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