Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin falls from $266

data.mtgox.com

491–500 of 505 posts

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#491
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, the word of the powerful is worthless, because power corrupts. People might keep their word because they're honest, or because they're accountable, but the "most powerful organization in the history of civilization" is by definition not accountable, and being an organization, neither is it honest. Second, the US government doesn't give its word that dollars are usable for anything other than paying dollar-deno…

That's just the tin foil talking. Look at it this way if you must: the rich and the powerful, in the US, have vast amounts of wealth stored in USD and USD-demoninated instruments. It is therefore in their best interests to preserve the value of the USD, or at times slightly inflate it. The risk of your second paragraph cuts both ways. If the euro collapses tomorrow, you might need only US$13 to pay that debt.

That personal slur is uncalled-for and demonstrates that you are completely unfamiliar with me and my history.

You're suggesting that US elites are systematically long dollars and have the power to control the value of the currency, including overcoming coordination problems. If that were true, we'd be seeing dollar deflation. Instead, we've seen about eight decades of uninterrupted inflation. This means one or both of your premises are wrong. I suspect both.

As for the "risk", I didn't mean to suggest that USD is particularly risky, certainly not more risky than EUR. I was just pointing out that the USG isn't "backing" USD even in the sense of Bretton Woods.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#492
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just the tin foil talking. Look at it this way if you must: the rich and the powerful, in the US, have vast amounts of wealth stored in USD and USD-demoninated instruments. It is therefore in their best interests to preserve the value of the USD, or at times slightly inflate it. The risk of your second paragraph cuts both ways. If the euro collapses tomorrow, you might need only US$13 to pay that debt.

That personal slur is uncalled-for and demonstrates that you are completely unfamiliar with me and my history. You're suggesting that US elites are systematically long dollars and have the power to control the value of the currency, including overcoming coordination problems. If that were true, we'd be seeing dollar deflation. Instead, we've seen about eight decades of uninterrupted inflation. This means one or both…

> If that were true, we'd be seeing dollar deflation.

I disagree. There are a number of benefits to inflation - particularly to those who have large amounts of debt on the books. Mortgaged real estate benefits greatly. Interest rates go up. Who stands to gain the most by decreasing the real value of loans and increasing interest rates?

> I was just pointing out that the USG isn't "backing" USD

In the abstract, nobody can back anything, because all you're relying on is their word. You could back a currency with a precious metal, but even that assumes the metal is intrinsically worth something (which has compelling arguments both ways).

The USG backs the USD fundamentally because they have power over the USD. They could instantly crush the value of the dollar if they chose to. Personally, I believe that if/when that happened, we'd have a great deal more to worry about than our wallets.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#493
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That personal slur is uncalled-for and demonstrates that you are completely unfamiliar with me and my history. You're suggesting that US elites are systematically long dollars and have the power to control the value of the currency, including overcoming coordination problems. If that were true, we'd be seeing dollar deflation. Instead, we've seen about eight decades of uninterrupted inflation. This means one or both…

> If that were true, we'd be seeing dollar deflation. I disagree. There are a number of benefits to inflation - particularly to those who have large amounts of debt on the books. Mortgaged real estate benefits greatly. Interest rates go up. Who stands to gain the most by decreasing the real value of loans and increasing interest rates? > I was just pointing out that the USG isn't "backing" USD In the abstract, nobody…

"Those who have large amounts of debt on the books" are short dollars, not long dollars, if you mean debtors (as suggested by your "real estate benefits") rather than creditors (as suggested by your "interest rates go up") — both groups have debt on the books, just on opposite sides of the ledger.

Creditors compensate by increasing interest rates on new loans, but that's, properly speaking, a response to expectations of future inflation, not a cure for past inflation.

> nobody can back anything

I can't tell if you're actually unable to understand the distinction between reserve-backed currencies and fiat currencies like the current dollar, or if you're intentionally bringing up irrelevancies to try to confuse the discussion. Your unwarranted personal attack earlier in the thread makes me want to assume the latter. In either case, shut the fuck up, because whether your ignorance is faked or not, you're not contributing to the conversation. You're just being an asshole.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#494
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would not make sense to buy EVERY one of them, as then you're guaranteeing they won't have value to anyone else.

Once you own 50% can't you create fake transactions to transfer the rest of the BTC to yourself?

No you need 50% of the mining capacity, not the bitcoins

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- the legal system is a huge disappointment (CISPA, SOPA, etc.) - the financial system is a huge disappointment (worldwide financial crisis) It's not that we love Bitcoin (sure, it is an interesting piece of technology, but it's money , and money is a dirty word), we just dislike the alternatives.

Of course they are disappointments. But are they worse than any known alternatives? Democracy isn't promised to be perfect, just to be better than its predecessors. Something can be the best-ever-made and still be disappointing.

The people are just taking back some of the power they had previously delegated to banks and governments. Our leaders have become too far disconnected from us, they don't even understand that we are used to unprecedented freedom of actions and speech, to levels that sounded crazy before the Internet (some people grew up downloading data from military satellites and servers just for fun, not in any way out of malice - this is something they'll never understand).

Let the hive mind decide what is moral and worthy and what is not. Democracy must evolve and this will never happen as long as the old generation has power to stop it.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#496
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referencing the fact with Bitcoin micropayments are practical because there are no transaction fees.

For now. Once mining becomes slow enough (and it has to slow down over time), exchanges will have to charge transaction fees to make the "proof of work" worth their while.

You don't need to use an exchange to make a payment, though.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#497
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divining that a price that is rising in a superexponential manner will be going down sometime soon is one of the least fooling things one can do when looking at a graph.

Define "soon". Anyone could have looked at the stock market in 1998 and said that it was sure to be going down soon but it took a few years for that to be the case. And anyone could have looked at the housing market even in 2003 and been waiting for it to go down "sometime soon", and been waiting half a decade for it. Keynes may have been mistaken on a lot of things but he got one thing right: "The market can stay ir…

What was Keynes wrong about? (Keynes, not Keynsians)

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#498

This is interesting. But I think it's only test to see how they can actually crash it to zero later on. And if we're voting here in Comments too, yes, let's have the Bitcoin submissions. Hacking a currency is interesting.

A downvote? Should I have capitalized They? As in all those in power who do not want to see alternative currencies succeed and have therefore infiltrated it to see what They can do to stop it? Does that make it better? (Yes, I expect a downvote now here too. Que sera sera...)

Dance, monkey, dance!

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#499
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For now. Once mining becomes slow enough (and it has to slow down over time), exchanges will have to charge transaction fees to make the "proof of work" worth their while.

You don't need to use an exchange to make a payment, though.

Its actually the miners who will be getting the transaction fees once the supply of bitcoins stops growing.

Re: Bitcoin falls from $266

#500
post #453
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time it crashed 50% (which I think has only happened once, in 2011) it took more than a few hours.

Which made it a lot worse. It looked pretty much like the end of the system to a lot of people. Whoever bought at 250 and was looking all day at the graph to see how to scalp some dough, got exactly what he deserved. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Worse or better, this is certainly different!

Also, it seems to be down below 70 now, so another 50% drop since yesterday, depending on what time you're talking about.

Post reply on HN