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Computerists

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Re: Computerists

#21

Post by VLM »

dorkrawk wrote: post #18

Most people who get a BS in biology end up becoming scientific biologists, though they might apply things that they've learned about biology in more practitioner type careers. Most people who get a BS in computer science don't go on to be "computer scientists", though they hopefully apply things they've learned in practitioner type careers. Of course people without serious research oriented training/education/focus a…

Most people who define themselves as having a BS in bio (as opposed to it merely being a stepping stone) work as lab techs ranging from $10/hr pharmacy techs up to maybe $25/hr at a med testing lab in an expensive cost of living area. At least in the old days. Currently, probably near half end up as waitresses and bartenders, completely out of the field.

Most people who get a BS in computer science (not as a stepping stone to a PHD or whatever, etc) end up on helpdesks, maybe pulling cable or replacing mice, not doing anything scientific. Basically like the bio lab techs, it amounts to training not education. The top 25% or so, maybe less, might get software dev jobs or maybe system/network admin jobs. Even in current conditions, most will end up in their field, maybe $8/hr no benes at a call center but at least more or less in their field. The HN crowd tends a bit toward the upper level of the pack, so yes, most HN readers have it far better than median.

Re: Computerists

#22

Post by trent_91 »

In my university, they had computer science (which was basically maths that became algorithms), software engineering (which many people think is computer science), and computer applications, which was what some people call "informatics".

Computer science is an overused term for something that is closer to maths but thought to be closer to engineering.

Re: Computerists

#23

Post by fusiongyro »

oskarth wrote: post #4

Countries with the word 'democratic' in them: - People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - Congo, Democratic Republic of the - East Timor – Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste - Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia - Korea, North – Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Laos – Lao People's Democratic Republic - Nepal – Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal - São Tomé and Príncipe – Democratic Republic of São Tomé an…

I think we call this phenomenon "marketing."

Re: Computerists

#24

Post by fogus »

abcd_f wrote: post #17

Neat, but he clearly has never debugged COM bordello on Windows, because one simply cannot do it without "deciding to stop goofing off and starting applying the scientific method". To figure out what the heck 0x8C123456 for an error code means and what triggers it, you make conjectures, run experiments, go for repeatable results across multiple testbeds and frequently solicit peer review of the results. "Not a scient…

Not that particular software no, but I'm used my share of dreck. Maybe I guessed where the problem was and used experimentation to validate, but I would hardly call that the scientific method.

Re: Computerists

#25

Post by fogus »

c0mpute wrote: post #20

In the purist sense of a "scientist" I have to agree there is not much observation -> Feedback -> progress happening. But what about some of the research in the universities? It is worth mentioning what Richard Feynman thought about "Computer Science" - He said it was never a science but an aspect of engineering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4wg6ZAFIM

> some of the research in the universities

Some of that for sure could and should be called science. However, most of the research being done is not actually pure research either but rather problem solving. (and sometimes not even solving per se)

Re: Computerists

#26

Post by jfoutz »

wooster wrote: post #8

Computer Science is an example of a formal science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science Or, in parts, an applied science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_science

Computer Science is alchemy. In a five or a thousand years, someone will come along and say, OH! we should think about it like this. Then the problems we deal with will change.

Re: Computerists

#27

Post by VLM »

cygwin98 wrote: post #9

How about Computer Plumber, Network Plumber, System Plumber, Data Plumber?

An apprenticeship and licensing system would surely solve a large number of problems (while creating a much smaller number of new problems). I'm sure the computerist's union would be an absolute joy to deal with (sarcasm), no doubt making every other skilled trades union look like civilized extroverted yes men in relative comparison.

The existence of trained plumbers does not mean no civil engineers are educated, or no environmental scientists exist.

We already have something like union rules so that wouldn't be much of a change. I got yelled at for moving a monitor across a cube without having a A+ cert. I'm like, dude, I have a CCNP, I build my own ham radio gear and microcontroller stuff at home, I've been building computers since that meant hand soldering S100 boards, and I've been doing this stuff since before you were born (literally). Oh OK then I won't write you up ... this time, but don't do it again (WTF?)

Re: Computerists

#28

Post by fogus »

jmduke wrote: post #2

There's the old quote attributed to Djikstra: Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. But who cares about titles, really? Why do they matter? The article makes the claim that you can tell someone's not a scientist if they have 'scientist' in their title. I'd argue for a corollary: you can tell someone probably doesn't deserve their title if they spend any significant amount of…

> But who cares about titles, really? Why do they matter?

I'm pretty sure that was the point. The term physicist doesn't make a physicist a physicist.

Re: Computerists

#29

Post by geoka9 »

wooster wrote: post #8

Computer Science is an example of a formal science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science Or, in parts, an applied science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_science

Yes. I haven't seen a professional programmer who calls herself a computer scientist. I think the author is beating a straw man.

And theoretical computer science is a branch of mathematics. It's as much science as math is.

Re: Computerists

#30

Post by samatman »

demian wrote: post #13

Comment: In English there is a split between Software Engineering and Computer Science. German uses the word Informatik which comprises both disciplines. It's the same for most of continental Europe. There is theory and research focused areas like computing or computational mathematics, and there is application, informatics (more similar to a CS degree) or informatics engineering (roughly an EECS degree, or a CS&SE w…

With the notable exception of "bioinformatics", which is fairly maths intensive.
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