Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Computerists

blog.fogus.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Computerists

#11

Post by rhizome »

Fuzzwah wrote: post #7
jmduke wrote: post #2

There's the old quote attributed to Djikstra: Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. But who cares about titles, really? Why do they matter? The article makes the claim that you can tell someone's not a scientist if they have 'scientist' in their title. I'd argue for a corollary: you can tell someone probably doesn't deserve their title if they spend any significant amount of…

As someone who has just moved to the US and been through the "joy" of looking for work; me. I'm a server admin, I have come to realize that what I do can be titled many different things. System admin / engineer, network admin / engineer, server admin / engineer, windows / linux admin / engineer..... and more. I dearly wish there was just one title for my job.

Systems Engineer, note the plural on "systems." Don't shy away from this, it's a title that has existed for decades and you're in good company. Resist title inflation!

Re: Computerists

#12

Post by davidcuddeback »

jmduke wrote: post #2

There's the old quote attributed to Djikstra: Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. But who cares about titles, really? Why do they matter? The article makes the claim that you can tell someone's not a scientist if they have 'scientist' in their title. I'd argue for a corollary: you can tell someone probably doesn't deserve their title if they spend any significant amount of…

The article's point has little to do with titles. It's about the scientific method and the lack of its existence in programming circles. The bit about titles is called an introduction.

Re: Computerists

#13

Post by demian »

Comment: In English there is a split between Software Engineering and Computer Science. German uses the word Informatik which comprises both disciplines.

It's the same for most of continental Europe.

There is theory and research focused areas like computing or computational mathematics, and there is application, informatics (more similar to a CS degree) or informatics engineering (roughly an EECS degree, or a CS&SE with more math, physics and electronics).

PS: In the US, the term "informatics" seems to be more related to the "soft"(design and business) parts of european informatics, like IT, Information Systems and Human-Computer Interaction.

PS2: In regard to the professional title, in Spain the people that study informatics are generally called "informaticians" ("informáticos" in spanish). But as with "computer scientist", people just use their job title as their professional title.

Re: Computerists

#14

Post by rhizome »

oskarth wrote: post #4

Countries with the word 'democratic' in them: - People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - Congo, Democratic Republic of the - East Timor – Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste - Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia - Korea, North – Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Laos – Lao People's Democratic Republic - Nepal – Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal - São Tomé and Príncipe – Democratic Republic of São Tomé an…

Well come on, why not consider context? There is no objective meaning of "democratic" outside of the ideal that no country satisfies, so what we can conclude is that in just about all cases it's to differentiate the governments from their predecessors. It just sounds a little out of place because no country called themselves anything like "The Glorious Dictatorship of Central Africa," or, "Plundered Colony of France, Southeast Asia."

Re: Computerists

#15

Post by tgflynn »

rhizome wrote: post #11
Fuzzwah wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has just moved to the US and been through the "joy" of looking for work; me. I'm a server admin, I have come to realize that what I do can be titled many different things. System admin / engineer, network admin / engineer, server admin / engineer, windows / linux admin / engineer..... and more. I dearly wish there was just one title for my job.

Systems Engineer, note the plural on "systems." Don't shy away from this, it's a title that has existed for decades and you're in good company. Resist title inflation!

But in many industries, defense and aerospace in particular, systems engineers are people who integrate multiple technologies to build systems (such as an aircraft or missile). They don't manage computer systems.

Re: Computerists

#16

Post by c0g »

Computer science and software engineering are different things. Computer science is a specialised subset of mathematics, software engineering is the process of making things that run on computers. They're connected in the same way that civil engineering and physics are- one underpins the other, and maybe in time what the physicists are doing will help make a good bridge. Science underpins engineering, engineering justifies science.

Re: Computerists

#17

Post by abcd_f »

Neat, but

he clearly has never debugged COM bordello on Windows, because one simply cannot do it without "deciding to stop goofing off and starting applying the scientific method". To figure out what the heck 0x8C123456 for an error code means and what triggers it, you make conjectures, run experiments, go for repeatable results across multiple testbeds and frequently solicit peer review of the results. "Not a scientist"? Ha!

Re: Computerists

#18

Post by dorkrawk »

Most people who get a BS in biology end up becoming scientific biologists, though they might apply things that they've learned about biology in more practitioner type careers. Most people who get a BS in computer science don't go on to be "computer scientists", though they hopefully apply things they've learned in practitioner type careers. Of course people without serious research oriented training/education/focus aren't going to be professional scientists.

Re: Computerists

#19

Post by acomar »

rhizome wrote: post #14
oskarth wrote: post #4

Countries with the word 'democratic' in them: - People's Democratic Republic of Algeria - Congo, Democratic Republic of the - East Timor – Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste - Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia - Korea, North – Democratic People's Republic of Korea - Laos – Lao People's Democratic Republic - Nepal – Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal - São Tomé and Príncipe – Democratic Republic of São Tomé an…

Well come on, why not consider context? There is no objective meaning of "democratic" outside of the ideal that no country satisfies, so what we can conclude is that in just about all cases it's to differentiate the governments from their predecessors. It just sounds a little out of place because no country called themselves anything like "The Glorious Dictatorship of Central Africa," or, "Plundered Colony of France,…

> There is no objective meaning of "democratic" outside of the ideal that no country satisfies, so what we can conclude is that in just about all cases it's to differentiate the governments from their predecessors.

Oh come on, you can generalize that argument to practically anything. No real world examples live up to their platonic ideals so who cares if you call a duck a horse, it's just to differentiate it from a different species of duck.

> "Plundered Colony of France, Southeast Asia."

I like it.

Re: Computerists

#20

Post by c0mpute »

In the purist sense of a "scientist" I have to agree there is not much observation -> Feedback -> progress happening. But what about some of the research in the universities?

It is worth mentioning what Richard Feynman thought about "Computer Science" - He said it was never a science but an aspect of engineering:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4wg6ZAFIM

Post reply on HN