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AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

appgratis.com

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Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#101

Post by MBCook »

niklas_a wrote: post #75
rimantas wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go and innovate on Android, what's the problem. Or make your own platform and innovate there. Or use HTML5. What makes me sad is constant whining about stuff like this.

Well the problem is, as I mentioned in my comment that the owner of the world's biggest computing platform can shut down a 45 person company without even giving a hint of warning or telling them what needs to be changed. I think even you can agree that's not a good thing for us developers, no? Also, if I build an Android only app I limit my audience. It's like saying I should create a website only for Firefox in 2005…

> Well the problem is, as I mentioned in my comment that the owner of the world's biggest computing platform can shut down a 45 person company without even giving a hint of warning or telling them what needs to be changed. I think even you can agree that's not a good thing for us developers, no?

That's what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket. If you make pre-prepared food for a grocery store chain and they suddenly decide to stop selling your products (for whatever reason, justified or capricious), you're going to be in deep trouble. How many small companies get >75% of their revenue from just one client?

It's a risk/reward tradeoff to hitch your wagon to someone else; they just got a large dose of the "risk" portion.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#102

Post by MBCook »

MWil wrote: post #9

Is being listed in the App Store a contract? Does it matter that my app was good to go at one point but could be pulled at any time if they introduce a new guideline? How do they justify unilaterally affecting what has to be a billion dollar industry that relies (or what could amount to legal reliance for equitable reasons) on them?

There is a contract, the developer agreement. If you read it, it says that Apple can reject your app for violating it's rules. It also says that Apple has full latitude to reject your app even if it doesn't violate any of the rules because Apple decides it's in their best interest.

Apple can basically pull any app at any time. You can choose not to develop for them, or you could try to sue them (you'd probably have to prove that they did something anti-competitive to get past the contract).

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#103

Post by CamperBob2 »

mdmarra wrote: post #97
w1ntermute wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time a developer got sued for violating the OS X EULA? Start worrying about real world problems for a change.

Just so I'm clear, where is the list of which ToS and EULAs are OK to break and which ones aren't? AppGratis seems to have gotten boned for violating one, yet you're advocating people break another in the same thread? Sure, the odds of Apple coming after you are low. But that doesn't mean that it's any less of a violation of the license agreement that you agree to when installing the software. AppGratis also thought…

Here are the ones that it's not OK to break:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text

Here are the ones that it is OK to break:

(Most of the rest)

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#104

Post by imissmyjuno »

gavinlynch wrote: post #74
od2m wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is low quality software and no trials. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an app, paid $2.99 for it and then found out it was garbage.

"I can't tell you how many times I've seen an app, paid $2.99 for it and then found out it was garbage." No offense, but if you can't take the time to Google around for reviews and screenshots of an App to filter out the garbage, you deserve what you get. Blind purchases are always going to be a gamble, and I don't get how you don't get that.

That is a very presumptuous observation. Reviews are subjective by definition. I have also spent a certain sum of money buying apps I could not return, despite the great reviews. For instance, many apps have very backwards UI's that I have no patience for, but some reviewers are seemingly OK with.

Apple certainly doesn't owe anyone a trial system, but more than anything I find it odd they don't see the value of it. For instance, it would arguably result in far more impulsive purchases.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#105

Post by endgame »

untog wrote: post #2

I will save HN the time: "I can't believe that it's 2013 and people are still basing their entire company around the App Store with it's murky rules" "But there's a lot of money to be made there, it's worth it!" "Apple needs to change their procedures" They're all true. Basing a business around an app is both risky and potentially very profitable. Apple should change their practises but have little incentive to. So,…

It's funny, because in yesterday's PayPal thread I said we were due for another post about the app store screwing someone over: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5515736

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#106

Post by kevingibbon »

ableal wrote: post #80
kevingibbon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say you need 20k DLs to get top 5 in a notable category. Lets say you get another 20k of real DLs from the app store ranking. Incentivised DLs are $0.35 each, but they are Dls and not real users. So $7k for 20k DLs. You usually want a LTV of 3:1. So your LTV would need to be $2.10 per user. These users are way worse than acquiring them from other channels because they only briefly see your logo and a brief descr…

> You usually want a LTV of 3:1. So your LTV would need to be [...] Lifetime value of a customer ? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifetime_value )

yep.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#107

Post by mcintyre1994 »

0x0 wrote: post #64

I cannot understand why the developer would be surprised, since guideline 2.25 explicitly warns not to create an app whose purpose is to promote others' apps in a similar fashion to the app store? Did they not stop to consider this could be a problem for even a second?

According to the article they had contact with Apple over this guideline, and successfully argued their service was satisfactorily different. They also claim they had a version accepted between that conversation and this takedown.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#108

Post by gojomo »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #78
gojomo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re (1): Well-disclosed paid-promotion should be fine: Apple does it (iAds), Google does it (AdWords). If that's the issue it should be fixable. Re (2) If a notification that "today's [no-additional-cost] deal has arrived!" counts as "advertising, promotion, or direct marketing", then it seems every other push that aims to improve app usage, by announcing new content or features, would also be verboten. Is that what A…

That sounds exactly like direct advertising, promotion or direct marketing. Mentioning you have a new feature isn't any of those things. Advertising a daily offer? That's definitely one or all of them,

When I get a notification via Google Plus app, driving me to their app because there's something that I've expressed interest in, is that "advertising, promotion, or direct marketing"? Or from a Facebook app? Or any game informing me it's my turn?

Yes, they drive app use, and perhaps even later revenues, but in a way that's in harmony with my intent when installing the app and expectations. It's like "you've got mail (that you requested)". You can squint and call it marketing, but then almost every notification that increases use of a profitable app is also marketing.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#109

Post by gojomo »

idunno246 wrote: post #99
gojomo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re (1): Well-disclosed paid-promotion should be fine: Apple does it (iAds), Google does it (AdWords). If that's the issue it should be fixable. Re (2) If a notification that "today's [no-additional-cost] deal has arrived!" counts as "advertising, promotion, or direct marketing", then it seems every other push that aims to improve app usage, by announcing new content or features, would also be verboten. Is that what A…

Yes. From the developer agreement(which is more explicit than the submission guidelines), pretty much every app violates this: 2.2 You may not use the APN or Local Notifications for the purposes of advertising, product promotion, or direct marketing of any kind (e.g., up-selling, cross-selling, etc.), including, but not limited to, sending any messages to promote the use of Your Application or advertise the availabil…

Thanks for that pointer. I'm surprise that highlighting new versions or existing features is prohibited. I've received quite a few such messages from major apps -- Zynga, Facebook, other leading games. Are they all being kicked out of the App Store?

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#110

Post by kostya-kow »

rimantas wrote: post #69
pi18n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and switch to Linux on your computing platfo…

> are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use > computers What does it even mean? iPhone and OS X are aimed at people who want to use their computers, instead of getting CS degree. I've heard that majority of cars in US are with automatic transmissions and few people know how to drive "stick". Are there voices suggesting that auto manufacturers are aiming their products at people who don't know how to driv…

From jargon files:

> hacker - A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and stretching their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.

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