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AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

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Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#41

Post by brodney »

pi18n wrote: post #14
untog wrote: post #2

I will save HN the time: "I can't believe that it's 2013 and people are still basing their entire company around the App Store with it's murky rules" "But there's a lot of money to be made there, it's worth it!" "Apple needs to change their procedures" They're all true. Basing a business around an app is both risky and potentially very profitable. Apple should change their practises but have little incentive to. So,…

I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and switch to Linux on your computing platfo…

Assuming you still develop for iOS, what is your setup for developing while using linux?

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#43

Post by tvon »

brodney wrote: post #41
pi18n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and switch to Linux on your computing platfo…

Assuming you still develop for iOS, what is your setup for developing while using linux?

You can get OSX up and running in VirtualBox/Vagrant.

Not that I'd want to do actual development that way, but we do it for iOS CI.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#44

Post by potatolicious »

spontaneus wrote: post #33
espadagroup wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay for exposure already exists within the app store. Large companies pay around $10-$20K a day depending on the category on crap ad networks (won't name them) that incentivize the users to download the companies app in order to "get to the next level" or something like that. The downloads are incredibly cheap and you get thousands and thousands of them. The app store ranking is almost entirely based on download velo…

Facebook just recently started doing this as well. You can now pay to get your app promoted in people's news feed.

This isn't quite the same thing. Facebook is letting people advertise apps on news feeds, they're not forcing downloads via a game mechanism.

What GP is talking about is the much sketchier model of blocking (or greatly slowing down) access to an app unless the user goes and downloads an affiliated app. This is artificial download inflation by bending the user over a barrel, not advertising.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#45

Post by pinaceae »

pi18n wrote: post #14
untog wrote: post #2

I will save HN the time: "I can't believe that it's 2013 and people are still basing their entire company around the App Store with it's murky rules" "But there's a lot of money to be made there, it's worth it!" "Apple needs to change their procedures" They're all true. Basing a business around an app is both risky and potentially very profitable. Apple should change their practises but have little incentive to. So,…

I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and switch to Linux on your computing platfo…

i am sorry, but this is the largest density of drivel in a while posted here.

android, linux, suing samsung, lack of innovation - it's like reading an Engadget comment.

apple's business model around the app store is to protect users from CRAP. malware, viruses, etc. it acts like a spam filter of sorts. just like any spam filter there are false positives, some things get through, etc. but this concrete case? good riddance.

and watch how google will tighten the screws in their play store due to facebook, malware, etc. they run ads for nexus without mentioning android. they run ads for chrome.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#46

Post by physcab »

espadagroup wrote: post #29
credo wrote: post #16

Detailed post, but it doesn't seem to address two things. 1. The WSJ report noted that Apple was concerned that " AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to pay for exposure." Simon hasn't addressed this point. Do they make paid recommendations ? If they do make app-recommendations based on payments, it makes a lot of sense for Apple to ban them. As an iOS (an…

Pay for exposure already exists within the app store. Large companies pay around $10-$20K a day depending on the category on crap ad networks (won't name them) that incentivize the users to download the companies app in order to "get to the next level" or something like that. The downloads are incredibly cheap and you get thousands and thousands of them. The app store ranking is almost entirely based on download velo…

Just to nitpick a little. It's not that those organic users are so valuable that everyone who can promote does just to get them. It's that organic users + incentivized users lowers your eCPI and can make your app (usually a game) profitable. But you can totally be profitable with just incentivized users as well...you just need to make sure your retention and revenue per user are higher than your costs in acquiring them :)

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#47

Post by untog »

pinaceae wrote: post #45
pi18n wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been recommending Android for a while, and here is another concrete reason why. Every time one of these stories appears I write the following: I develop for iPhone and I used to love OS X. The iPhone in entirety and OS X lately are aimed directly at people who don't know how to use computers even if it comes at the expense of those who do. Everyone do yourself a favor and switch to Linux on your computing platfo…

i am sorry, but this is the largest density of drivel in a while posted here. android, linux, suing samsung, lack of innovation - it's like reading an Engadget comment. apple's business model around the app store is to protect users from CRAP. malware, viruses, etc. it acts like a spam filter of sorts. just like any spam filter there are false positives, some things get through, etc. but this concrete case? good ridd…

apple's business model around the app store is to protect users from CRAP

Apple's business model around the App Store involves protecting users from crap, but it also has healthy doses of limiting competition and establishing first-party app dominance.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#48

Post by kevingibbon »

espadagroup wrote: post #29
credo wrote: post #16

Detailed post, but it doesn't seem to address two things. 1. The WSJ report noted that Apple was concerned that " AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to pay for exposure." Simon hasn't addressed this point. Do they make paid recommendations ? If they do make app-recommendations based on payments, it makes a lot of sense for Apple to ban them. As an iOS (an…

Pay for exposure already exists within the app store. Large companies pay around $10-$20K a day depending on the category on crap ad networks (won't name them) that incentivize the users to download the companies app in order to "get to the next level" or something like that. The downloads are incredibly cheap and you get thousands and thousands of them. The app store ranking is almost entirely based on download velo…

Lets say you need 20k DLs to get top 5 in a notable category. Lets say you get another 20k of real DLs from the app store ranking. Incentivised DLs are $0.35 each, but they are Dls and not real users. So $7k for 20k DLs.

You usually want a LTV of 3:1. So your LTV would need to be $2.10 per user. These users are way worse than acquiring them from other channels because they only briefly see your logo and a brief description. Let's say they are only 25% as good. So now you need a regular LTV of $8.40. Very few apps have a LTV of over a dollar.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#49

Post by ryanSrich »

pgrote wrote: post #24
credo wrote: post #16

Detailed post, but it doesn't seem to address two things. 1. The WSJ report noted that Apple was concerned that " AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to pay for exposure." Simon hasn't addressed this point. Do they make paid recommendations ? If they do make app-recommendations based on payments, it makes a lot of sense for Apple to ban them. As an iOS (an…

Does 5.6 apply to all apps? Is it a black and white issue? For instance, the Southwest Airline app, Ding, sends me push notifications when there are sales.

Yeah I'd like this answered. I have several apps that advertise through push notifications, EA is one of them.

Re: AppGratis pulled from the App Store. Here’s the full story

#50

Post by od2m »

kevingibbon wrote: post #38

I hate the idea of AppGratis and I'm glad its been removed. Who really benefits? The cheap user who will not normally pay for a high quality app? The app developer who spends $$ to get featured in AppGratis to then artificially climb the app store ranking? Dls are one of the worst vanity metrics out there. Devs should focus on building high quality products, monetize, then acquire quality users in a sustainable manne…

The problem is low quality software and no trials. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an app, paid $2.99 for it and then found out it was garbage.
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