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A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

littlebrown.co.uk

331–340 of 363 posts

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#331
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cell damage inflicted by the cryo process is readily acknowledged by its proponents. They argue that the neurological damage is not so large that the original brain can't be reconstructed either by scanning it while still frozen or by repairing it with nano-bots. Much like data from a wiped hard drive can still be recovered by digital forensics. As for the problem of outer layers freezing faster than inner layers…

No they understand how to fleece gullible people.

Including themselves?

They're not making any money off this, Alcor is a non-profit and the wages of the personnel involved are fairly low.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#332
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would donate money to a "Cryo-freeze Iain Banks" fund - though I'm sure he has more than enough funds himself.

I'm pretty sure he would be against cryo: "Firmly restating his atheism, Banks spoke of his belief that death is an important 'part of the totality of life', to be treated realistically, not feared." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks

Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people think that cryogenics is a better chance of resurrection than burying a body in dirt. And some people think burying a body in dirt is the best chance of resurrection. These beliefs do not seem, at this point in time, differentially stupid or crazy. It is quite all right to hold such beliefs, but bringing them up every time someone dies as if-only-they-had is rather insensitive.

> These beliefs do not seem, at this point in time, differentially stupid or crazy. How did you reach that point of view?

There is no proof for either, and both are purely based on hope. We have no technology available to resurrect frozen people and we don't know if such a technology will ever be available, and religious people don't know if they will be resurrected in the afterlife - they can only hope. The key word here is belief/hope.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#334

It was a great surprise for me to see him at the book signing event a couple of months ago in Bristol. Not a deep and mysterious person I imagined him to be after reading the books - just a great, happy guy who shared some thoughts about his imagination. He could really make the whole room laugh.

I met him on a couple of occasions many years ago and he really is great company. And he got a round in.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#335
post #13

I am very upset about that... In my opinion he's the best living science fiction author... but not for long, I guess... :-( I've read most of his books (all of his SF books). The Culture is an amazing universe, but the rest of his works are also outstanding.

What do you recommend as a first book to read? (edit: never mind, sibling thread has it covered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5485695 )

I won't tell you which one I recommend reading first, but I would recommend reading 4 or 5 before hitting "Against a dark background".

That book is really hard on the emotions. I have a feeling it may have been a bit of an experiment for Iain as it reads a bit differently from the rest (I think I've read every book he has out currently, including "Raw Spirit"... Brilliant book)

Oh, and the top comment in the sibling thread you linked to is a very good recommendation.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#336
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is there a scientific basis to prefer this bet to, say, death-bed religious conversion?

As a bet, its possibility of payoff is consistent with the rest of what we know about the world, as opposed to religion, which is inconsistent. Furthermore, there are cases where things similar to this were done successfully, so extrapolation of technology might lead one to believe that we may be sufficiently good at reconstruction in the future. In comparison, no prayer has ever even slightly worked.

> "its possibility of payoff is consistent with the rest of what we know about the world"

What we know about the rest of the world is that this does not work, it will cause extensive damage even if it could work, so it would not necessarily re-generate the same person even if it did work [1] and that humans are notoriously awful at projecting technological advances 50 years out, to say nothing of our track record of projections even further.

Extrapolation of current technology, from any particular point in our history, points us in wildly incorrect directions. See: the history of people proclaiming us on the verge of vanquishing death. "too cheap to meter" energy. Nuclear cars. Flying cars. Lab-grown meat. Off-world colonies in the far-off year 2000. Choose an AI prediction. Choose a cloning prediction.

The notion that some technology has worked in the past, so a particular technology has some chance of working, is as flawed as "it appeared that my last prayer was answered, so my next one has a chance". Both require selective reporting from the available data to even entertain.

[1] There are no shortage of case studies of people who've sustained comparatively minor brain trauma and been reduced to mere shadows of themselves, if not manifested new and almost entirely different personalities.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#337
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read in a Amazon review that it is recommended to start with Consider Phlebas , then The Player of Games and finally Use of Weapons (as a first start into the Culture, that is). I've bought them three myself and will read them in this order.

Read this: http://nuwen.net/culture.html then: The Player of Games Consider Phlebas Use of Weapons Use of Weapons is great, but the writing is poorer than the other two.

Use of Weapons is great, but the writing is poorer than the other two.

Heh. Interesting. I'd say exactly the opposite myself. Not that I dislike the other two - PoG is one of my faves of his SF work - but to me UoW is a vastly better work of literature, both in structure and character development. Less full of SFnal goodies than some of his later work, but all the better for that in some ways.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These beliefs do not seem, at this point in time, differentially stupid or crazy. How did you reach that point of view?

There is no proof for either, and both are purely based on hope. We have no technology available to resurrect frozen people and we don't know if such a technology will ever be available, and religious people don't know if they will be resurrected in the afterlife - they can only hope. The key word here is belief/hope.

Isn't this more a question of the relative strength of objective evidence? I have a problem with the idea that hope in and of itself is a bad thing.

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#339

Another person that might be cryopreserved [1], but probably won't be, much like the 150,000 who passed in the last day or so [2]. Many sorts of terminal case can actually lead to better quality cryopreservation under present legal restrictions [3], in comparison to the drawn out and uncertain end of aging, precisely because they are more rapid and certain in time. (Or might be plastinated [4] in the alternate histor…

Hmm...except that cryopreservation is still, as of this point, a complete crock of shit. Trying to find a necromancer would be more productive. As an ex-biologist, I can assure you that horrible cellular damage is being committed to these "preserved" people. I used to flash-freeze all sorts of cells, ranging from bacteria (e. coli) to animal (IMCD3 and MDCK kidney) to human (Human Embryonic Kidney, Primary cortical a…

> (since you are dead).

IMHO this is the cryo equivalent of an ethnic slur. Cryophobia, if you will. It meets the "you can't change this thing about yourself so we outsiders are going to make fun of you for it, nyah nyah" pattern while being devoid of useful information content. Cryonics proponents do not readily concede the point that patients are technically dead, based on the evidence available.

The legal status (which is a fully independent use of the term "dead" and can be readily conceded with absolutely zero consequence to the technical argument) is something else, but if you are implying that cryonics companies would therefore be within their legal rights to dump their patients, that could just as easily be seen as a problem with the law (i.e. it fails to adequately protect cryonics patients). So it's not clear to me why you would think this is an innate ethical shortcoming of the choice to practice cryonics in the first place.

> companies that are under no obligation to actually do what you paid them to do

It certainly would contradict the purpose, and likely the bylaws, of a cryonics organization to fail to keep patients safe, for at least the period of time that is realistic given the limits of initial funding and uncontrollable factors world economic stability. (100 years is definitely more reasonable than a million.) Assuming the funds set aside experience real growth above the rate of inflation, the risk could actually decline over time because the financial safety net would be larger.

One possible approach if you think the time is going to be long before the needed technology is available, would be to allocate funding towards measures designed to stabilize the economy, avoid war, and/or prevent natural disasters. The other approach would be to try and create disaster-proof cryobunkers (but there's physical limits, as always).

Re: A Personal Statement from Iain Banks

#340

Very sad news indeed. Just introduced the works of Iain M. Banks to a friend, so something happy does come from sad news. Also, if you're a fan of the Culture universe and want a smile, have a gander at a list of Culture ship names @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_in_the_Cultu... "Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The" "Hand Me The Gun And Ask Me Again" "Lapsed Pacifist" "Subtle Shift In Emphasi…

> Just introduced the works of Iain M. Banks to a friend, so something happy does come from sad news. And I've just purchased Player of Games , maybe not based on your personal recommendation, but certainly on the collective recommendation since this news broke. Kind of a sad way to get introduced to an author, but OTOH I think it would be somewhat nice that even my impending death would lead to new readers of my wor…

Good to hear. I also just purchased Player of Games... for the 3rd time... I think I'm going to read through the Culture novels again... for the 2nd or 3rd time.
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