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Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

nymag.com

31–40 of 72 posts

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#31

For me, it was a pretty euphoric high and short term memory boost the first time. With repeated use, the effects diminished alot. I am much more effective/productive/clever/creative without it, though the drug makes it feel like im better at all those thing. (I was prescribed it long ago)

That is very odd. I have never heard of somebody having euphoria from Modafinil in any of the medical literature or on any of the nootropic/drug forums.

http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil list off 10 different citations for the line "But what does medicine say? It seems to report no euphoria, tolerance, or withdrawal/dependency."

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, you end up paying for the tolerance that builds up extremely quickly when you take Modafinil multiple times.

It's interesting that tolerance is always mentioned when modafinil is brought up, because no research studies have found any evidence of the reported tolerance, and users of said drug have no incentive to hurt the modafinils image. I wonder if repeated use simply makes the user feel that the changes are normal, when in effect, they are in a high functioning state.

>no research studies have found any evidence of the reported tolerance

http://www.gwern.net/Modafinil list off 10 different citations for the line "But what does medicine say? It seems to report no euphoria, tolerance, or withdrawal/dependency."

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#33

I am very interested of opinions on these boards for it. My intuition is there is no free lunch - if this were the optimal brain wiring, we'd be there already. Is it the inevitable crash or sleep deprivation? I haven't done any hard research on the topic, so I am interested in first hand observations. We are the target audience of the article, even if the link title doesn't suggest it.

I've had a fair bit of experience (though not every day for months on end). From what I've read many people have a similar time, though some may end up with better results.

If you're tired, you can use it as an alertness aid. If before, you would have fallen asleep at your desk from exhaustion, you will instead be able to continue to work (but still be fairly tired). Modafinil will allow you to continue on from the point of exhaustion and be able to function in some reduced capacity (50-60%). You will experience some periods of higher function (almost like waking up and being a bit tired, and then your mind clears a bit), basically you will alternate between tired and fine for a few hours, each period about an hour in duration. Taking modafinil in this manner isn’t especially recommended, but if you just spent all day / night putting out fires and you need to come in the next day to ensure everything is still running smoothly (but hard work isn’t expected), modafinil will do great here. Alternatively, I would recommend using it at the beginning of a normal day after a full night’s rest. This will result in some periods of clear headedness, and generally make it incredibly easy to focus on a task. I wouldn’t say I’m as ‘quick’ on modafinil, but I can certainly refactor code and slowly improve it for hours without feeling bored or getting distracted. I find that it makes me super calm as well. It definitely hampers creativity / big picture thinking, I wouldn’t do system design on modafinil, or even design for a subcomponent, I wouldn’t be at my best and might miss details or produce a subpar design. Basically, if you are just implementing a chunk of code, and have already figured out the details, modafinil will result in a good experience, you’ll make steady progress, your work will be of high quality, and the day will go by fairly quickly.

aaron695 mentioned dose – 2-3 pills a week is fine. Alternating entire weeks on and off is fine. I would only take at most one pill a day, but some people take two and are fine. Tolerance builds up about as quickly as it does for Adderall IR. Definitely don’t go drinking on the drug, but if you typically have a drink with dinner you’ll be fine - just don’t expect to feel any of the effects from the alcohol. I’ve felt the beginnings of depression on other nootropics (specifically piracetam - I generally have a poor diet though, so that may have been my fault) – but haven’t had a problem with modafinil after an extended period of time. It will be difficult to sleep if you take it too late in the day, definitely dose in the morning.

Essentially it’s a stronger, better version of caffeine (increased alertness, focus, can be used to increase performance with acute use, but with regular use tolerance builds and productivity decreases).

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#34
post #29

I use modafinil regularly. I have (had?) some variant of ADD, and while it does not trouble me as much as it did when I was younger, it can still be frustrating, mostly if I am trying to focus on work I don't particularly enjoy. I use it between a few times a week and a few times a month (my desire to take it at all fluctuates quite a bit). I'll take 10-25mg in the morning and get on with my day. I generally don't re…

Sanity check fail: 10mg is an implausibly small dose, so small you'd have to grind the pills and measure tiny quantities of powder. Are you sure you're not thinking of a different drug, or off an order of magnitude?

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#35

I am very interested of opinions on these boards for it. My intuition is there is no free lunch - if this were the optimal brain wiring, we'd be there already. Is it the inevitable crash or sleep deprivation? I haven't done any hard research on the topic, so I am interested in first hand observations. We are the target audience of the article, even if the link title doesn't suggest it.

>if this were the optimal brain wiring, we'd be there already

Evolution isn't an "optimal" process. It is very random. And very slow.

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression for me. I've used it multiple times in law school and afterwards. I stopped because for a couple days afterwards I would get seriously depressed.

That's interesting because modafinil supposedly has mild antidepressant effects.

And antidepressants tend to cause increase depression when you aren't taking them. So that seems perfectly normal.

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#38
post #29

I use modafinil regularly. I have (had?) some variant of ADD, and while it does not trouble me as much as it did when I was younger, it can still be frustrating, mostly if I am trying to focus on work I don't particularly enjoy. I use it between a few times a week and a few times a month (my desire to take it at all fluctuates quite a bit). I'll take 10-25mg in the morning and get on with my day. I generally don't re…

Sanity check fail: 10mg is an implausibly small dose, so small you'd have to grind the pills and measure tiny quantities of powder. Are you sure you're not thinking of a different drug, or off an order of magnitude?

It comes in 100mg pills, and I take between 1/4 and 1/6 of one. Higher doses don't seem to have much more of the beneficial effects on concentration and memory, just make me more jittery.

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#39
So a few months ago, Borden ordered a three-week supply by mail. (“It was a piece of cake,” he says.)

Can one really just order prescription medicine through the mail or internet like that?

I thought most of thus online pharmacy was just a scam. I guess there would be no way of telling if the pills one got was the real deal or some fake ones containing possibly poisonous ingredients...

Re: Modafinil Is Wall Street’s New Drug of Choice

#40

I am very interested of opinions on these boards for it. My intuition is there is no free lunch - if this were the optimal brain wiring, we'd be there already. Is it the inevitable crash or sleep deprivation? I haven't done any hard research on the topic, so I am interested in first hand observations. We are the target audience of the article, even if the link title doesn't suggest it.

Well the no free lunch theory is I think wrong, we are vastly better off with modern medicines. We are already getting free lunches of longer and heather lives. My experience, obviously not scientific, with modafinil is mild mania, grumpiness/quick to anger (What I think is the tiredness coming through), increase concentration and attentiveness to a task. My intelligence goes down. Mixed with alcohol it can cause bla…

You're missing his point, which is a reasonable one. If the human body truly functioned better with modafinil, then evolution would have given us humans that naturally produced modafinil. That isn't the case, so the assumption is there is some downside to the drug, and one that actually outweighs the positives. However, the article makes modafinil seems like an obviously positive thing and that taking the pill fixes some bug in natural human behavior.
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