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Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

rein.pk

111–120 of 165 posts

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#111
Retention rates are low in everything, not just online classes. Ultimately, its how the student reacts to the plateau. Anyone in any area of teaching, I'd highly recommend reading "Mastery" by George Leonard. In the book, he talks about 3 of learning types that can stifle progress: the Dabbler, the Obsessive, and the Hacker (not to be confused with the IT world's rough definition).

* The Dabbler will pick up tons of things, "overjoyed" about the newness that they are learning. Eventually, they hit their first plateau and the 'newness' becomes boring and they'll seek out another activity to experience the same 'newness' high. Maybe they'll come back to it later and see if they can progress again.

* The Obsessive will seek out perfection on this new activity, pouring over every YouTube video or article to figure out how to be better. When they plateau, they'll try harder; hoping for the same results. If the return isn't there, the Obsessive will look for another activity.

* The Hacker will actually ride out the plateau potentially indefinitely. In some cases, this will create progress eventually, but in others, it can become the cap of their learning capability (hence, 'a hack'). They just don't put the extra effort needed to progress further.

While all these types are negative, two-thirds drop the activity for something new, something they might be a natural at. From a business perspective, a monthly subscription favors Hacker-type customers; where a 'per course' pricing scheme favors Dabblers.

Steering back to online courses, I think the issue isn't 100% the site's fault; but that certain students will join for the excitement, but fan out eventually (Leonard goes on later to discuss how to better approach each of these types as the Teacher). I've signed up to all of the sites in the article, along with Udacity (where I'm currently taking the Web Dev course). For Udacity and edX, I've completed the courses I've signed up for; however at Duolingo, I stopped after the Basics 1 in Spanish. I want to learn Spanish, but the drive and time isn't there for me.

Jumping back to 'Mastery', Leonard talks about 5 keys that can help promote mastery and can be used to retain students: Instruction, Practice, Surrender, Intentionality, and The Edge.

* Instruction is obvious: have great teachers(not just through credentials, but are generally good AT teaching), something these sites offer tenfold.

* Practice is where I felt edX's course fell through. It was a lot of lecture, but the Finger Exercises were more the tradition 'regurgitation' of knowledge from traditional classes. Duolingo and Udacity (at least the Web course) seem to have this concept taken care of. Duolingo offers different ways to practice and at least with Web Development, you can to see the fruits of your labor with each class.

* Surrender is more for the student than the instructor, but talks about accepting you aren't a Master as something and so sometimes you need to take two steps back to take one step forward (in Aikido, we refer to this a 'Kihon Waza', or practicing the basics). So many people have the mindset of "If you're not doing it this way, you're doing it the wrong way", that this can stifle learning. As an instructor, thinking up new and creative ways to practice the basics can help alleviate this.

* Intentionality talks about visualizing the action, and while focused more on physical activities, could be utilized online. Give the students a view at the end results/expected return on their time. Sure, its dangling the proverbial 'carrot on a stick' in front of them, but it can help them sees where the fruits of their labor. If you can mix this with some of the Practice key, you could get better results (IMO).

* The Edge tip-toes the line between endless practice and pushing the envelope (though Leonard says it isn't). For a new student, this can be a little harder, considering they are still learning; but creation of 'outside the box' milestone/projects could benefit from this. The student's amassed this bit of knowledge; make them use it in a less than cookie cutter way. This would be a great undertaking by online courses, due to how do you 'personally' grade someone's submission, especially overtime? Maybe setting it up in a 'there is no right/wrong answer' way, namely because if a student takes a risk, they shouldn't be penalized for it.

Like I said, I'd recommend the book. I teach community college currently, and while most this is anecdotal opinion, I feel like it's helped me maintain engaged students.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#112
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the killer feature would be the availability of textual/reading material corresponding to 100% of the content provided by videos. So successfully completion of the course won't require watching the videos.

You may want to rethink that. For most of the classes I have taken the lectures were very enjoyable. I like the frequent quiz breaks also. The videos have captions if you like them.

Also, the video's become much more enjoyable at 1.25x or 1.5x speed, depending on the speaker.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#113

For the past year, I've only been seriously interested in three Coursera courses - Scala, Ng's Machine Learning, and Probabilistic Graphical Networks. All three overlap at the same time!! And they don't give assurances of when they will be offered again, or even if. Argh. I've started Scala but doubt I'll be able to continue if it I attempt PGN again. This happened to me last fall and I ended up completing none of th…

I agree the scheduling makes it difficult. I'm doing the NLP class right now, and scheduled to start the PGM class in a couple of weeks. I'm worried about the overlap, but I'll make it work out.

But I also wanted to do the Scala course. I didn't start it because I know I'd not be able to keep up with all three when they overlapped for a few weeks. It's a shame, but I had to prioritize.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#114

You should title this article "How to cheapen the online education experience". You may be right, that edX and Coursera require a big commitment, but that's what learning requires. Do you want to play games for an hour, or do you want to advance your skills and understanding? (I've completed the Codeacademy Javascript track, and a full Coursera class (livin' in the 5%, wooo!)). You say Codeacademy got it right, but I…

I think I agree with most of your points, but disagree with your disapproval of "easier to learn". The presentation of material really makes a gigantic difference on how well you learn the material (if at all). While I agree that coursera and edX shouldn't hasten towards "gamification" of any sort, I think there is plenty of work in making the classes of better quality, and I think that _will_ make it easier to learn.

I was taking a course on coursera where I thought the professor was talking too quickly --- so I actually slowed it down to 75% the pace in the video. Awesome! I was happy to be able to do that.

Otherwise though, I don't think the course was presented that well. For one, lectures were shitty recordings of slides; I was looking at nothing but text and static images for entire lectures (never seeing the professor's face), and they were blurry, hard to read, and just hard to understand. Of _course_ that makes it harder to learn! I have to focus on figuring out what the hell is written there! And there was no (free) textbook for the course.

Anyway, I think the point I am just trying to make is that while the author of this article might be suggesting to Coursera to take steps in questionable directions, I DO think a lot of those courses could be better polished, and that would make it easier to learn from them.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#115
post #3

I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. I'm pretty sure that in most cases Coursera locks you out of old material unless you were enrolled. I don't follow along with the class. Synchronous learning, IMO, is an anachronism. We have video recording technology, practically infinite bandwidth, and near speed of light communicatio…

I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. How many of those classes have you done the work for? Personally I find the synchronous model helps me complete the course, as it removes the temptation to put things off.

I've signed up for over a dozen, finished three, learned significant amounts from, and done significant work in, about 5.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#116
Why do people think retention is a good thing?! I think retention is actually bad even for classical education.

The lower the retention rate, the more the likelihood that they are following lots of courses at the same time or multitasking with something else. This means that people are "exploring" more! I think that "exploratory learning" has always been stifled by classical organized education and is one of the reasons why I hate most academic environments (yeah, they're cool if you're in one of the top 10% unis or in a "privileged" position", but not for the rest of cases...). I believe that, after a certain level of baseline knowledge, in any field, it's actually more important that someone learns "what they want/need/have inclination for/find more interesting" than that they "learn more"! Maybe more time exploring and less time actually uploading things to your mind is better (not "productive", just "better", and I said "fuck productivity" a lot lately because I found that it just doesn't lead to better anything). All the new ways of doing education make exploration easier (as in you can explore a lot without really "wasting" that much time), and we should take advantage of this!

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#117
Coursera courses are supposed to be college courses. College courses are a lot of work, and you have to get your reading and assignments done on time. This should not come as a surprise.

CodeAcademy (also wonderful) is a completely different animal. It is not comparable to Coursera.

What you're calling a bug (aka "dirty secret") of Coursera is actually a huge feature: that we can all, whatever our goals or our budget, sign up and check it out. Quite unlike an class at MIT or Duke, which is only available to a pre-selected few.

In short, the MOOCs, and specifically Coursera, are awesome. We are so lucky to have this opportunity. Quit yer bellyachin'.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#118
The article seems to imply that, in an ideal world, all of these student would stay throughout the course. But I don't think it's clear that the churn is bad.

There is some lower bound to the amount of time that it takes to learn something (absent some educational revolution). Many people aren't even willing to pay that lower bound simply because they have other priorities in life. But they do like to sample (which is good), and potentially finish out a course if nothing else gets in the way.

Online courses are great because they lower the cost of sampling, so we shouldn't be surprised that there are more samplers, and fewer people finishing out the courses. If 1000 people complete an online course, then that's great, even if 99000 people signed up and disappeared a week later.

That being said, I'm pleased to see the specific criticisms offered in the article, and I hope they lead to a better balance for more people.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#119
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. How many of those classes have you done the work for? Personally I find the synchronous model helps me complete the course, as it removes the temptation to put things off.

I think the synchronous model makes it easier to have small communities of students working through the same thing at the same time, helping each other.

On top of that it makes work of TA easier. Everyone works more or less on the same problem, be it programming assignment, quiz, etc. If there's a new question TA most probably remember what was in the last lectures and what are the common issues students are having this week.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#120

You should title this article "How to cheapen the online education experience". You may be right, that edX and Coursera require a big commitment, but that's what learning requires. Do you want to play games for an hour, or do you want to advance your skills and understanding? (I've completed the Codeacademy Javascript track, and a full Coursera class (livin' in the 5%, wooo!)). You say Codeacademy got it right, but I…

I think I agree with most of your points, but disagree with your disapproval of "easier to learn". The presentation of material really makes a gigantic difference on how well you learn the material (if at all). While I agree that coursera and edX shouldn't hasten towards "gamification" of any sort, I think there is plenty of work in making the classes of better quality, and I think that _will_ make it easier to learn…

Very agreed. There's certainly much these online courses can do in the lecture quality department alone. (Maybe they just need more quality control instead of a rush to fill their sites with content). I think you can do a lot to make the learning process much smoother and more streamlined. My opposition to the suggestions in the article is on the grounds that the author is searching for a shortcut to the learning process (or maybe just wants a really addicting, very shallow introduction to the topics), which is exactly opposite of what these sites are aiming to achieve.

I'm all for making these platforms more fun, engaging and rewarding. The more the better. But my main point is that the focus, the most important aspect of education is the process of learning and that often requires prolonged focus (to follow along and venture all the way down the rabbit hole of a subject), deep engagement (so your brain can make all of the connections, tie all of the strings together), and interest. The authors suggestions don't really reinforce the process of learning (as I know), they may even weaken it by creating distractions, giving rewards for too little work (obviously subjective, but being subjective you're going to help some people sometimes, and hurt some people sometimes) and getting students to focus on the rewards rather than their understanding, and rather than building implicit positive feelings about their accomplishments.

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