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Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

rein.pk

1–10 of 165 posts

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#2
Thankfully the article is much better than its title. Low retention is not a problem per se - since there's no cost to signing up for (and subsequently dropping) these online courses, it's to be expected that retention won't be great. However, I agree that retention could probably be improved among the marginal subscribers by using some of the techniques covered in the post.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#3
I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. I'm pretty sure that in most cases Coursera locks you out of old material unless you were enrolled. I don't follow along with the class.

Synchronous learning, IMO, is an anachronism. We have video recording technology, practically infinite bandwidth, and near speed of light communication. The idea of synchronous learning, where you have five thousand teachers teaching the same Calculus I class every year, is predicated on a world where these technologies don't exist.

As an aside, for this reason I think the collegiate model is going to completely change in the near future as people start realizing how absurd it is. The real value professors provide is having someone to answer questions (and in a lot of cases, professors don't even take questions during lecture). And even that functionality can and is (in my experience) mostly replaced by other students in the class or students who have already taken the class.

Put the material up, and let communities form around it. I don't need the professor to answer my questions, all I need is the relevant forum (in the original sense) to ask.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#4
The way that Udacity does it is perfect for me -- work through at your own pace. Coursera has a couple of self-paced classes, I believe, and I wish that more of the courses had that option.

I think the majority of MOOC course developers want to run their online courses as closely to their university versions as possible, since that's what they're used to working with. It also provides a handy way for them to go off-duty, in a sense, if the course has a finite end date. Using their current pacing structure (which is incredibly difficult, as the OP points out, for people that aren't full-time students) allows the teachers to do something other than devote themselves solely to the course, assuming they don't want to just post an archive and leave it alone -- which would meet a lot of people's needs, but misses the whole teacher-student interaction, which is pretty much missing from MOOCs anyway. If they want to provide an environment that's like a classroom, with students interacting with the instructors and with each other, you kind of need everybody at the same pace. It would be nice for us if they could slow that pace down, but that would probably increase the workload for the instructors.

We're still early in this game. I'm glad that so many professors have been willing to invest the time into developing the courses, and I understand why they are currently set up to be conveniently structured for them. I think we'll start to see some improvements if/when the money appears in the MOOC game. Once it's no longer basically charity work for the instructors, there will probably be more efforts to work around student schedules.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#5
post #3

I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. I'm pretty sure that in most cases Coursera locks you out of old material unless you were enrolled. I don't follow along with the class. Synchronous learning, IMO, is an anachronism. We have video recording technology, practically infinite bandwidth, and near speed of light communicatio…

Only terrible calculus teachers/class setups don't respond to student questions. Until you can do the same thing with a video there is going to be a gap. Traditional collage classes are generally based on the idea that ~1/3 of the time is synchronous learning in a classroom with a teacher 2/3 is self study. Have a 3 hour class expect 6+ hours of homework / projects on average. With that said, most classes don't spend a lot of time on questions, but they occur at the right time as in right in the middle of a lecture or right after it.

Presumably online videos could let you cut down on some class time, but even 1 hour after watching a video your going to forget some of your questions and much of the context of other questions you remember.

PS: If you took calculus in a setting of 500 people where you could not ask questions you still got ripped off even if there was a teacher in the room.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#6
My problem was mainly the availability of the materials. Codecademy and duolingo give you access to as much as you require from the start and you can go through as quickly as you like. The university driven sites limit access to so much per week (though I'm not sure how courses will operate the second time) and demand you stick to their schedule, though granted this may be due to their need to peer-review the more demanding assignments.

Unfortunately my free time isn't available in nice predetermined six-week chunks, but even if I am able to catch up three weeks or more in a weekend the courses gave a very negative vibe about continuing to progress as soon as you miss a single one of their deadlines (i.e.- "you missed our deadline for this multiple-choice computer marked test, so your effort no longer counts"). I've 'failed' several coursera sessions in the fourth or fifth week for that reason.

Timetabling seems a very traditional educational view, and it contrasted sharply with codecademy and sites like duolingo where I spent Jan and Feb learning the basics of new languages - computer and human. I finished the courses I took because I did them at my own pace.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#7
really great points in this article. I hope that Coursera sees this and really takes it seriously. I love what they're trying to do, and have signed up for about 30 classes myself that I totally intended to study, and just couldn't finish a single one. And its true, artificially imposing the traditional college course model just does NOT make sense in the online context. Why are there deadline for problem sets, and test schedules? Fix that, and it'll change everything

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#8
One of the things to that I found confusing with the coursera classes was that each one seems to have its own set of rules for dealing with homework assignments, late homework, and partial credit. At one point I was signed up for two classes at the same time and I assumed they had the same policy for when homework was due. It wasn't a big deal but there were several times I would have a free hour or so and it was a task to figure out the best way to use that time. I think it is a positive thing that the courses are trying out a lot of different approaches to see what works best but this reminded me of the parts of academia that I didn't really care for.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#9
There will continue to be low retention until there is an incentive to finish. Without the credentialing piece, I don't see a problem with low retention. I think it's awesome that people dip in and out as their needs and interests change. In every class I ever took at MIT/Caltech there were at least a couple lectures I would have been happy to skip. MOOCs enable that.

I hope there will be more short and tightly focused online courses in the future instead of monolithic traditional-length courses we have today. I think that'd go a long way to improving the apparent retention rate.

Re: Online Education's Dirty Secret - Awful Retention

#10
post #5
post #3

I usually sign up for a bunch of classes just so I can access the material at a later point when I have time or when I'm interested. I'm pretty sure that in most cases Coursera locks you out of old material unless you were enrolled. I don't follow along with the class. Synchronous learning, IMO, is an anachronism. We have video recording technology, practically infinite bandwidth, and near speed of light communicatio…

Only terrible calculus teachers/class setups don't respond to student questions. Until you can do the same thing with a video there is going to be a gap. Traditional collage classes are generally based on the idea that ~1/3 of the time is synchronous learning in a classroom with a teacher 2/3 is self study. Have a 3 hour class expect 6+ hours of homework / projects on average. With that said, most classes don't spend…

You can do the same with a video. You pause it, get on a relevant IRC channel or internet forum and ask "what does she mean by X at 23:51?" Or you Google the term or process you were confused about and find someone else's explanation (I have personally done this loads of times). Or you turn to the person you're watching it with and ask. Or you call up your study group on skype. Do those two latter things usually happen now? No, but they easily, easily could if this type of learning became mainstream.

Is having a professor there that you can ask immediately in the moment (and interrupt the lecture for the other students who understood the material) worth $1000 per credit hour?

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