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The Positive Programmer

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Re: The Positive Programmer

#61

Post by russelluresti »

zoba wrote: post #36
russelluresti wrote: post #4

There's a reason developers complain and fixate on things that are bad or broken. It's because, for the most part, developers (and designers and UX people and many others) are natural problem solvers. If something isn't broken, okay, great, no need to focus on it. But if something is broken, to a problem solver, this is inexcusable. Things that are wrong need to be fixed. So when you see people complaining about thin…

It is too easy to get caught up in the idea that " everything is bad" when all you focus on is negatives. It sets the tone for your day, and alters your overall opinion on things. A better alternative would be to have a clear, accurate, and wholly representative understanding of the situation. This means focusing on the good just as equally as the bad. I understand where you're coming from though. I used to think the…

I see no issue with acknowledging good or positive things, but perhaps you should clarify what you mean when you say you should "focus" on them. To me, to "focus" on something means you invest a significant amount of time and brain power into understanding and evaluating them. If something is good and isn't broken, why, as a problem solver, would you spend valuable time going "oh isn't that nice?" when you could be addressing other problems?

Obviously there are things to be learned from the things that aren't broken (so that you know the difference between what works and what doesn't, and a potential solution when you come across something that IS broken), I just don't see the point of focusing on the good. It's good. Yay. Now move on.

I also find it interesting that both you and OP associate negative outlooks with big egos. You both mention how negative people tend to think of themselves as better or more deserving. I wonder if this is an association that really holds water.

Re: The Positive Programmer

#62

Post by stefantalpalaru »

davidroberts wrote: post #9
russelluresti wrote: post #4

There's a reason developers complain and fixate on things that are bad or broken. It's because, for the most part, developers (and designers and UX people and many others) are natural problem solvers. If something isn't broken, okay, great, no need to focus on it. But if something is broken, to a problem solver, this is inexcusable. Things that are wrong need to be fixed. So when you see people complaining about thin…

I don't think there is any contradiction between being a problem-solver and having a positive outlook on life, as long as you are a competent problem solver and getting a lot of problems solved. Successful problem solving provides both an immediate joy from a "mission accomplished" feeling, and a long term positive outlook that comes with the feeling that because of you, there are less unsolved problems in the world,…

The joy of having solved a problem is short in comparison to the unpleasant process of actually solving it.

Ignoring the negative aspects of reality is also not compatible with the mindset of a problem solver.

Re: The Positive Programmer

#63

Post by russelluresti »

nickknw wrote: post #48
russelluresti wrote: post #4

There's a reason developers complain and fixate on things that are bad or broken. It's because, for the most part, developers (and designers and UX people and many others) are natural problem solvers. If something isn't broken, okay, great, no need to focus on it. But if something is broken, to a problem solver, this is inexcusable. Things that are wrong need to be fixed. So when you see people complaining about thin…

> Personally, I feel the whole "positive attitude" thing is a detriment. People with "positive attitudes" tend to ignore problems because they don't want to upset others or make waves. I think I know the kind of people you're talking about, but please don't think all "positive" people are in that same category. I think constructive criticism is great, and in no way do I want to stop giving it or receiving it. But the…

Criticism and complaint are one thing, but I think it boils down to what certain people are able to see. For example, if we're working on a project and I tell you "Hey, I don't think this solution is going to work. There are too many points of failure and something's going to go wrong. We need a plan for when these things go wrong." As a negative person, I focus on all the way things can go wrong. I've envisioned what would happen with each one. But as a positive person, you don't see them. Or, if you do see them, you think they're so unlikely that you don't consider them serious.

Now, if we planned for things to go wrong (as a negative person would) and things go right, all we lose is a little bit of time that was spent creating backup plans. But if we planned for things to go right, and things do go wrong, we're in a situation where we have to scramble.

That's why I think positive attitudes can be detrimental. If you err, I feel you should err on the side of caution, and that typically requires a negative outlook (because positive people won't waste their time on it).

Re: The Positive Programmer

#64

Post by obstacle1 »

groby_b wrote: post #55
cema wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but think "Of course a white male programmer wouldn't see an issue with that" That would be stereotyping. You would not want to stereotype, would you?

I've used this particular statement as a rhetorical device. But yes, yes I do. All the time. I try to catch myself doing it, and not let myself be influenced by it. Having biases/stereotyping is not the issue - we're predisposed to snap judgments. Recognizing it, and deciding how we act upon it is the issue. As such, I'm still OK with my statement. (Except that I'd re-edit to "majority often blinds people). I call ou…

>I don't accuse, or segregate, or treat the other party as lesser

1. Drawing the category is in itself an act of segregation.

2. Claiming to know each person in a class of people better than they know themselves is inherently treating them as lesser. It is the definition of claiming superiority.

"Don't worry, silly white males, it's not your fault that you don't know The Truth, because you're silly white males! Here, let me tell you what's up!"

Re: The Positive Programmer

#66

Post by greghinch »

I've been working as a developer for about 10 years, and was involved in some tech communities for about 6 or 7 years prior to that (early high school, doing things like LAN parties, Linux install fests, and generally socializing amongst the "nerd" set). If there's an overwhelmingly common personality defect I've seen amongst tech aficionados, it's a proclivity towards the negative.

My observation is that people with highly logical thought processes can often end up developing an outwardly negative approach to most aspects of life. Perhaps it's due to frustrations of dealing with people not as logical as us. Perhaps its a genetic personality defect. While I can't say for certain, I know I'm certainly guilty of it, and though I've made an effort to be better about it (and am), it's still a kind of "default" response I have to the unexpected or things that don't follow the "path" that I imagined. I see a similar pattern amongst many folks in the groups I mentioned.

I will say if anything, the overall demeanor of those groups has become a lot more positive than I remember it being 5-10 (or more) years ago.

Re: The Positive Programmer

#67

Post by nickknw »

russelluresti wrote: post #63
nickknw wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I feel the whole "positive attitude" thing is a detriment. People with "positive attitudes" tend to ignore problems because they don't want to upset others or make waves. I think I know the kind of people you're talking about, but please don't think all "positive" people are in that same category. I think constructive criticism is great, and in no way do I want to stop giving it or receiving it. But the…

Criticism and complaint are one thing, but I think it boils down to what certain people are able to see. For example, if we're working on a project and I tell you "Hey, I don't think this solution is going to work. There are too many points of failure and something's going to go wrong. We need a plan for when these things go wrong." As a negative person, I focus on all the way things can go wrong. I've envisioned wha…

> As a negative person, I focus on all the way things can go wrong. I've envisioned what would happen with each one. But as a positive person, you don't see them. Or, if you do see them, you think they're so unlikely that you don't consider them serious.

That's interesting, we seem to have wildly different definitions for these words. I view it like this:

As a programmer, I plan for things to go wrong. As a positive person, I try to express it in a constructive way. Caution and forward thinking is not necessarily tied to being negative!!

Planning for when things go wrong isn't just something a negative person would do, it's also something a cautious or sensible person would do. Or an experienced software developer! If I've learned anything from programming it's that no matter how unlikely an error condition seems, it WILL happen sooner or later.

I HAVE seen the kind of person you are talking about though - there are the people who think that just being positive will make bad things less likely to happen, and then people who are just overly optimistic about everything. Not every person who identifies as positive thinks this way though! :)

Re: The Positive Programmer

#68

Post by RougeFemme »

nickknw wrote: post #67
russelluresti wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticism and complaint are one thing, but I think it boils down to what certain people are able to see. For example, if we're working on a project and I tell you "Hey, I don't think this solution is going to work. There are too many points of failure and something's going to go wrong. We need a plan for when these things go wrong." As a negative person, I focus on all the way things can go wrong. I've envisioned wha…

> As a negative person, I focus on all the way things can go wrong. I've envisioned what would happen with each one. But as a positive person, you don't see them. Or, if you do see them, you think they're so unlikely that you don't consider them serious. That's interesting, we seem to have wildly different definitions for these words. I view it like this: As a programmer , I plan for things to go wrong. As a positive…

It's like employing defensive programming in your everyday. You plan for the unlikely negative event so that you can contain/minimize the impact. . .but you don't dwell on it forever.

Re: The Positive Programmer

#69

Post by tsumnia »

Domenic_S wrote: post #49
tsumnia wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little bit of a Catch-22, but focusing on self first definitely improves happiness. About 9 years ago, I had terrible anger issues, over weight and all the stereotypes of the computer dork. One day, after sitting on WoW for 4 hours waiting to buy Arena points, I thought "What am I doing with myself?" and shifted gears to working out. That moment of selfishness, is what helped pull me out of whatever rut I was…

> About 9 years ago [...] after sitting on WoW for 4 hours waiting to buy Arena points I don't doubt your story, but your timeline is off. Arena was introduced with BC, which was Jan 2007 -- 6 years ago, not 9. It would have been impossible to buy arena points 9 years ago because they didn't exist. That aside, I don't see that as selfishness, just introspection. If selfishness is doing something for your own benefit,…

You're right, my math was way off, thanks for catching that. It was still Arena points, cause I remember quitting the next day.

Re: The Positive Programmer

#70

Post by ibudiallo »

obstacle1 wrote: post #64
groby_b wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used this particular statement as a rhetorical device. But yes, yes I do. All the time. I try to catch myself doing it, and not let myself be influenced by it. Having biases/stereotyping is not the issue - we're predisposed to snap judgments. Recognizing it, and deciding how we act upon it is the issue. As such, I'm still OK with my statement. (Except that I'd re-edit to "majority often blinds people). I call ou…

>I don't accuse, or segregate, or treat the other party as lesser 1. Drawing the category is in itself an act of segregation. 2. Claiming to know each person in a class of people better than they know themselves is inherently treating them as lesser. It is the definition of claiming superiority. "Don't worry, silly white males, it's not your fault that you don't know The Truth, because you're silly white males! Here,…

This is a good example of focusing on the negativity. It could have been interpreted in so many different ways and I am sure your interpretation is not what the author meant.

Before responding any further please re-read your message , then read it one more time.

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