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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see where you're coming from but given some of the content of the original story it's not entirely irrelevant. I actually do wonder a little what Grover Norquist's deal is here. I understand his politics (sort of) but I assume receiving a statement laying out the calculations the government is going to use against you could only be an advantage when strategizing how to reduce one's tax bill. That he'd be agains…

Ten bucks says his organization, Americans for Tax Reform, gets money from Intuit, HR Block, or another similar company. Of course, we'll never know because 501(c)(4)s aren't required to disclose their backers.

How does it help vendors of tax preparation software and services if Norquist and his group succeed in getting taxes reformed, simplified, and lowered?

I think the reason Norquist opposes measures to make the existing tax system easier to live with is that such measures would tend to reduce pressure to implement his proposals to change it. He doesn't care one way or the other about Intuit, H&R Block, or your friendly enrolled CPA, the demand for all of whom would be reduced if he were to succeed in getting his proposals enacted.

As for myself, I happen to believe tax withholding was not one of Milton Friedman's finer inventions[1]. You should get your full paycheck every payday. Then, every quarter, you should have the privilege of cutting a check to the United States Treasury. That would keep taxes on everybody's mind!

[1] http://www.stephankinsella.com/2009/10/fck-you-milton-friedm...

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US. If you live in a county with an effective lower tax rate you have to pay the difference. I take home less money than someone with the same job and same expenses. In addition it's so cumbersome to file from abroad that I have to pay someone. It's like the king of England collecting taxes from the ones who…

"Worst part is that we have to pay US taxes as well local taxes even if we don't live or make any money in the US." You can resign your citizenship. I remember hearing reports of people doing this last year (going to Singapore)

In most cases, paying a tax-preparer to do the annoyance for you is far less hassle than dealing with both trying to get rid of citizenship, and trying to attain citizenship in another country where you would like living.

Perhaps some European country would like to start offering citizenship to anyone that renounces US citizenship, as a way to encourage immigration of skilled and high net worth individuals.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#323
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false, they specifically make examples of folks (especially so with businesses) that attempt to defraud the IRS. http://www.irs.gov/uac/Examples-of-Employment-Tax-Fraud-Inve...

Did you read the examples? In many of these cases, tax fraud isn't the primary factor: "On September 18, 2012, in Cincinnati, Ohio, Larry Lough, of West Chester, Ohio, was sentenced to 24 months in prison, three years of supervised release, and ordered to pay $757,751 in restitution to defrauded investors and $145,175 in restitution to the IRS. Lough pleaded guilty on February 15, 2012, to conspiracy to commit mail a…

conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud

Doesn't this just mean that he submitted his fake tax return via the US Postal Service and he paid his (falsely computed) taxes electronically?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#324
post #59

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

In Europe taxpayers waste millions with the tax authorities' pre-filled/free filing systems. The major reason for that is that once you have free filing with some data preloaded, human behaviour kicks in and you either spend some time figuring out where to minimize your tax losses (rational economic behaviour) or accept the tax return presented by the tax authorities and go with that even if it means wasting money (i…

Aha so you ought to make software that interacts with the pre-filled forms before they are confirmed and charges 80% fees on all savings you account...

Go pre-filling!

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#325

The choice is between letting the government do your taxes for "free", versus having a company whose reputation rides on getting your taxes done as efficiently as possible with the least tax burden to you. Anybody who would choose to have the government complete them, hasn't been paying attention to the lengths revenue-strapped states will go to maximize their tax collections. It's a bit like letting the user car sal…

Having tried both the systems of Spanin and Denmark - your post doen't seem very informed.

In both Spain and Denmark the system works excellently and all the information is available for you to verify. You just dont have to do any typing.

So if you are paranoid you can spend as long as you want verifying pre-completed information. If you have better things to spend your time on (family? friends?) you can just do a quick check to see that the numbers look right.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the examples? In many of these cases, tax fraud isn't the primary factor: "On September 18, 2012, in Cincinnati, Ohio, Larry Lough, of West Chester, Ohio, was sentenced to 24 months in prison, three years of supervised release, and ordered to pay $757,751 in restitution to defrauded investors and $145,175 in restitution to the IRS. Lough pleaded guilty on February 15, 2012, to conspiracy to commit mail a…

conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud Doesn't this just mean that he submitted his fake tax return via the US Postal Service and he paid his (falsely computed) taxes electronically?

As we saw in the Aaron Swartz case, "wire fraud" has a very broad definition.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#327
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, it seems you're attacking a strawman sauced up in government-is-evil hyperbole. The tax system in Denmark is 100% automatic for almost everything. Most people don't have to do anything at all. Once a year, you get a letter or email asking you to check the numbers, you can then go in and add extra information if needed, and that's it. If you discover an error back in time, you can fix that too and get money bac…

Are we saying that since the system apparently works in Denmark it therefore works everywhere and that there never be any government-is-evil considerations?

What a bizarre exaggeration of the parent comment. The comment about Denmark appears to serve as an existence proof, demonstrating that there isn't any inherent property of tax systems that means they must necessarily be convoluted and evil.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#328
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US person who visits other countries, I get scared about making a mistake in immigration issues. Going through customs in a country where you don't speak the language (well or at all) is scary.

I knew a woman with three passports, US, UK and Dutch. She only ever travelled on her US passport because only the US has the resources to help out single private travellers in shitty areas when something goes wrong. They're not going to help everyone, but they're going to help a lot more than the other govs.

I have two, US and IE. The US passport is only used at the US border (per law). Not many countries have a problem with the Irish.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#329
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew a woman with three passports, US, UK and Dutch. She only ever travelled on her US passport because only the US has the resources to help out single private travellers in shitty areas when something goes wrong. They're not going to help everyone, but they're going to help a lot more than the other govs.

But her US passport also makes her a bigger target. I would've thought the British passport would've offered the best tradeoff. Large enough to do something, small enough to escape notice.

She had a British accent, and self-identified as Dutch. I imagine the accent would be the primary thing that people would have pigeonholed her by.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#330
post #282
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My return for 2008 or 09 was a mess . I had one 1099 I never received from a former employer I'm convinced was trying to screw me, I had one 1099 sent to a former address and a debt forgiveness 1099 from a credit card charge off. I got a packet from the IRS listing the adjustments, what they proposed I owed and very clear and detailed instructions on how to respond to each of the three changes. Incredibly easy to res…

I challenged the adjustments to one of my returns and the most difficult part for me was finding a damn fax machine while I was on hold with a very helpful woman at the IRS. In the end they admitted they made a mistake (to their credit, an understandable one) in saying that I made a mistake and I lost a total of maybe an hour or two of my time.

I'm sure if I didn't have three separate things to verify and pay or challenge it would have been quicker :)

I ended up challenging one of the three and I spent more time writing that letter and including supporting documentation than anything else.

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