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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#101

Post by vidarh »

cpinto wrote: post #59
ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

In Europe taxpayers waste millions with the tax authorities' pre-filled/free filing systems. The major reason for that is that once you have free filing with some data preloaded, human behaviour kicks in and you either spend some time figuring out where to minimize your tax losses (rational economic behaviour) or accept the tax return presented by the tax authorities and go with that even if it means wasting money (i…

Given how simple the UK tax system is, and what a large and rising percentage of UK , that number sounds incredibly high...

Regarding your site: The "Learn more" isn't a link. Why not? I don't want to go to your blog, I want a clear statement of what you provide without registering first. I'm not going to register without a very clear idea of what you offer. That I can register for free makes no difference to me when there's no clear statement to explain what I get if I sign up for free, given that the service costs money to use.

Looking at your "pricing" page, I see fear-mongering. "Hours wasted"? Only if your tax affairs are terribly complicated. "Painful and confusing forms"? Only if you failed basic English and arithmetic. I find the UK self assessment (having dealt with the Norwegian one before Norway went "pre-filled"/online) very well designed. "No guidance or help"? The HMRC guides and website are actually very good.

You seem to be positioning yourself for people with lots of money (to be able to save on average 2000,-, given that the average British taxpayer pays somewhere below 4k in income tax and 2.5k NI, and very few pays more than 10k-15k...), who are confused and clueless about the tax system, yet willing to sign up to an online service rather than get face to face time with an accountant...

If that's your intended market, and that actually brings the revenues for you, then your site is well targeted...

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#102

Post by cm2012 »

gav wrote: post #21
k3n wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They usually have a free version that is adequate for the most basic of returns, and then all others require you to purchase something in order to file through them. If you actually want the value-added services (such as the recommendations you mention), then you pay even more. The situation is a farce and a disgrace to our country; the pockets of a few are getting lined at the detriment of the many. Wait, are we dis…

The free version is just for Federal, you have to pay to file your state tax return. What I find insulting is having to pay to file my taxes, then having to pay sales tax on top of that.

I filed my NY state tax return for free using TurboTax, just a data point.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#103

Post by maxerickson »

niggler wrote: post #95
maxerickson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But a system that only addressed the needs of 100 million people with simple taxes might still be a good idea (I realize that the thing exists. Free File is urged on by the government and has wide reach. I don't like that it is roughly designed to prevent the IRS from developing any sort of direct servicing).

You are looking at a group of a small percentage of that (at most a few million people) who make enough that they are not eligible for 1040A/1040EZ (the 1040A cutoff is roughly 100K) yet don't have particularly complicated tax situations. That pales in comparison to the people who can be catered by the free tax systems.

I'm saying that I don't like the current free file implementation. Who it covers (or not) isn't particularly part of my dislike for it. I'm admitting that it covers a great deal of people.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#104

Post by LoganCale »

smsm42 wrote: post #82
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to the DMV?

BTW, despite DMV being the common complaint, I've been dealing with DMV a number of times and never had a problem. Dealing with the IRS was somewhat nightmarish though - while I can't complaint about customer service per se (people I spoke to were polite and tried to help me within what they could) the processes and the transparency were quite Kafkaesque. Basically somehow IRS decided I owe them a ton of money, and I…

I had a situation last year where the IRS sent me a notice that I owed something like $20,000 in taxes from a single 1099 they claimed I did not file. In fact, they had missed a decimal point on the 1099 and read something like $75,000 rather than the $750.00 that was on the 1099. After re-sending them copies of the 1099 and all the data I had on what I filed, they responded saying the matter was settled and apologized for the inconvenience, but I'm still bothered by the fact that had that decimal place error been my own fault, I would have been fined $3,000 (according to the documents they sent) but when they make the mistake they just send a form letter apology.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#105

Post by pc86 »

smsm42 wrote: post #82
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to the DMV?

BTW, despite DMV being the common complaint, I've been dealing with DMV a number of times and never had a problem. Dealing with the IRS was somewhat nightmarish though - while I can't complaint about customer service per se (people I spoke to were polite and tried to help me within what they could) the processes and the transparency were quite Kafkaesque. Basically somehow IRS decided I owe them a ton of money, and I…

I've had quite the opposite experience. Dealing with the DMV here in Pennsylvania is always a nightmare with long waits and dealing with employees who are rude and make it known they'd rather be getting a medical procedure than renewing your license or some other aspect of their job. I've only had to deal with the IRS in an official capacity twice and both times (while a PITA for the reason I had to deal with them) the people with whom I spoke were exceedingly polite, helpful, and most importantly knowledgeable about what they were helping me with.

I say this not to say that you're wrong by any means, just to offer another anecdote.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#106

Post by eumenides1 »

Isn't there free options in the US? In Canada, we have StudioTax. http://www.studiotax.com/

It's free and on a donation basis. I switched from TurboTax to this and I'm really happy with it.

I'm surprised there isn't a open-sourced free way to do taxes. That way we can address the tinfoil hat based worries of the government doing your taxes and have free and easy software.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#107

Post by vidarh »

itafroma wrote: post #85
JimWestergren wrote: post #19

Stats about tax declaration from Sweden last year: Via internet: 19,9% Via PIN code: 20,1% Via telephone: 12,5% SMS: 6,6% Smartphone app: 2,3% Total: 60,4% filed electronically The rest sent in papers via the mail. (the old method) Source: http://www.skatteverket.se/download/18.71004e4c133e23bf6db80... Personally I have filed via the internet since 2005 both private and for my company.

How people file isn't a problem in the US: in 2010, 70%[1] of tax filers (~90 million people) filed electronically and that number has almost certainly increased since. The issue in the article is whether the IRS (our federal taxing agency) should be allowed to file returns on behalf of citizens (i.e., do most of the work for them). [1]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42275764/

Most of these are pre-prepared returns. Nobody edits their tax return via SMS or phone - it's just acceptance of the one that have already been sent to them.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#108

Post by pc86 »

pdubs wrote: post #74
noonespecial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

Only if it's malicious or intentional. A mistake will be picked up and you'll get a form a year or two later asking you to accept or challenge proposed corrections. If less tax was paid than required you have to pay that + interest...which really isn't that unreasonable. I'm not saying the whole system isn't needlessly complex, but don't make it out like the IRS is actively out to get you.

My return for 2008 or 09 was a mess. I had one 1099 I never received from a former employer I'm convinced was trying to screw me, I had one 1099 sent to a former address and a debt forgiveness 1099 from a credit card charge off. I got a packet from the IRS listing the adjustments, what they proposed I owed and very clear and detailed instructions on how to respond to each of the three changes.

Incredibly easy to resolve the entire ordeal within weeks, including full payment.

I have no doubt that if the IRS truly made it a policy to extract as much money from everyone as they could, they would have just audited me and nit picked every math error ad nauseum until I was drowning in penalties and interest.

This is part of why I have a CPA now.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#109

Post by paulyg »

Many in this thread seem to be glazing over one important detail. This system would be opt-in. Don't trust the IRS? Have a lot of complicated deductions? Hire a CPA or use Turbo Tax or fill out the paper yourself. Approx 13% of filers used a 1040ez last year. This system is perfect for them. I would venture a guess that 1/2 of 1040a filers could also use it. Again though it is your (hopefully informed) choice to do so.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#110

Post by Hannan »

pdubs wrote: post #74
noonespecial wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part about when == is != they get to charge you a giant penalty. That's no accident.

Only if it's malicious or intentional. A mistake will be picked up and you'll get a form a year or two later asking you to accept or challenge proposed corrections. If less tax was paid than required you have to pay that + interest...which really isn't that unreasonable. I'm not saying the whole system isn't needlessly complex, but don't make it out like the IRS is actively out to get you.

>> If less tax was paid than required you have to pay that + interest...which really isn't that unreasonable.

If I pay too much, do I get interest back on the overage?

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