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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#81

Post by alistairSH »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

Yes. In the last decade or so, the Virginia DMV has been painless for typical tasks. Most common tasks can be performed online - registration, license renewal, even obtaining titles after paying off loans (assuming the dealer/bank held the title electronically). The few times I've had to show up in person, I've been in and out in 30 minutes or less.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#82

Post by smsm42 »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #45
theorique wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some government programs have excellent customer service as compared to some corporate equivalents I am sure we could find counterexamples here.

Ever been to the DMV?

BTW, despite DMV being the common complaint, I've been dealing with DMV a number of times and never had a problem. Dealing with the IRS was somewhat nightmarish though - while I can't complaint about customer service per se (people I spoke to were polite and tried to help me within what they could) the processes and the transparency were quite Kafkaesque. Basically somehow IRS decided I owe them a ton of money, and I spent several months (not consecutively, just how long it took to be resolved) trying to find out why and how to make them realize it's not true. I never found the answer to the why question but when it got to the question of me owing them something like 17 dollars (there also were cents, I just don't remember the exact sum) I just paid it up to put the whole thing behind. I still don't know why exactly they wanted it and what was wrong (my return was pretty simple and I asked professionals and IRS service people, nobody had any idea).

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#83

Post by ScottWhigham »

MBCook wrote: post #51
ScottWhigham wrote: post #40

To those saying "We should be more like Sweden/Finland!", I'd ask whether those countries have a tax system that is also based on using tax credits and deductions to lower your tax due? I don't know the tax codes in those countries but my guess is that, because they use the tax entity-created system, they do not have such a complicated tax code as the US. In the US, you have two sides of this: (1) the IRS, and (2) CP…

Ignore all the deductions and other stuff. It's a mess and should be fixed, but for this simple issue, it's not relevant. I get W2s, 1099s, 1099-Rs, 1099-INTs, THX-1178s, ABC-123s, etc. I have to manually copy the stuff from boxes 1-30 on each of those onto my returns. I'd file my taxes in January expect it takes weeks for all the various organizations I deal with to make those and send them through the mail. I shoul…

I wish all of those would get reported/filled in automatically also. If you have to file for yourself, it's a massive PIA to get all of that info. And in 2013 it's far harder - in the past, I used to get paper copies of everything but this year I received lots of "Please create an account here and then you can download your ABC-123". It takes a day to collect and collate all of the ABC-123s. PIA indeed. And the IRS already has that info - it's double-entry accounting except that it's worse since you are judged on your ability to do it correctly. So yeah, that part of it could certainly be improved!

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#84

Post by brown9-2 »

hkarthik wrote: post #54

US Tax reform is one of those things I don't expect to happen in my life time. Our government is too addicted to the income stream it provides and is just too scared to mess with it in any meaningful way. All it takes is a fear monger with an agenda like Intuit to whisper "Our experts estimate that you will lose $X billion in uncollected taxes with this new scheme" to send congressmen from both parties running. Ideal…

If you read the article, it seems like there are at least several members of the legislative branch in favor of reforming the tax filing process to simplify things (and save taxpayers money).

The opposition comes from business interests whose revenue comes from helping taxpayers navigating a complex code and processing.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#85

Post by itafroma »

JimWestergren wrote: post #19

Stats about tax declaration from Sweden last year: Via internet: 19,9% Via PIN code: 20,1% Via telephone: 12,5% SMS: 6,6% Smartphone app: 2,3% Total: 60,4% filed electronically The rest sent in papers via the mail. (the old method) Source: http://www.skatteverket.se/download/18.71004e4c133e23bf6db80... Personally I have filed via the internet since 2005 both private and for my company.

How people file isn't a problem in the US: in 2010, 70%[1] of tax filers (~90 million people) filed electronically and that number has almost certainly increased since. The issue in the article is whether the IRS (our federal taxing agency) should be allowed to file returns on behalf of citizens (i.e., do most of the work for them).

[1]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42275764/

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#86

Post by gyardley »

Yes, TurboTax is being rather transparently venal, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. I doubt the American government is competent enough to get tax calculations right, and I suspect they're hungry enough for revenue to make all their default assumptions in their favor. At least that's been my experience with every state and federal tax authority I've dealt with for the past half-decade or so.

Once we have a tax code that's simple enough and a government that's competent enough to get things right, then we can talk about having the government fill out our tax forms. Until then, the government's just going to be ripping off the blindly trusting, a little bit at a time.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#87

Post by joras »

Taxes are prefilled in Estonia also, you can see all of the information on the webpage, and in case of a home loan or investments, you can send that information to the tax form from a bank site with one click. If you're married you can file joint tax. And thats it.

The whole process takes about 10 minutes, the deductibles are calculated and returned quite quickly, this year I was returned about 100euros, mostly because of my daughters dance lessons that are exempt of tax.

I dont see the reason people try to defend TurboTax here, yes, taxes are more complicated in US, but still, government does the same calculations anyway, have the same data anyway. Why not do this automatically. And if government wants to screw you, well, then I dont belive that turbotax or alternatives could help you anyway.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#88

Post by fduran »

Also unlike other countries from what I remember you mail your federal and state tax forms and you don't even get a receipt or acknowledgement notification, just hoping the envelope won't be lost.

A simple official paper stating your basic tax figures (gross/net income) can also be used as a simple way to verify low income when asking for scholarships and other financial aids right?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#89

Post by nathanb »

OMG big business is trying to ruin my life!

The government are not incentivized to do a good job preparing your taxes. I'm not a tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist. I don't think the US government wants to institute a program to systematically defraud the population. But I do believe that governmental inefficiency and incompetence is nigh-limitless, and the very people who may need their tax returns the most could end up being cheated out of them, not by malice but by indifference or stupidity.

(And there are many opportunities for the poor and underserved to have their taxes prepared for free. Many credit unions will do it, for example, and they are incentivized to do a good job because the tax returns will likely pass through their hands).

I realize the counter-argument is "but you can just opt-out if you don't trust the government". Sure. I can also choose to drive if I don't want my civil liberties violated by the TSA (and I do, except when traveling internationally). If the easiest and most convenient option also involves giving away rights, most people will take it. And then when later it turns out that it's being abused, there will be insufficient infrastructure in place for many people to choose an alternative.

I hope this is just paranoid ranting.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing

#90

Post by frogpelt »

Frankly, anyone who does trust any government hasn't had very much experience with them. At best, governments are inefficient and incompetent. At worst, they are run by politicians absorbed with self-interest.

There are already scads of people trusting too much to other entities rather than figuring it out on their own. These people leave their tax withholdings at default levels, then walk down to the local Wal-Mart and trust the Jackson-Hewitt crooks to do their taxes. Jackson-Hewitt files a 1040EZ for them, charges $300 bucks and they leave happy because it will be automatically be taken out of their $10,000 refund. They feel rich for about two weeks.

The solution is not more government nanny-state ideas. The solution is to find ways to require people to be MORE accountable for their own well-being.

How about requiring every person who receives 10% or more of their yearly salary back in a refund to attend classes on how to maximize their tax benefits? It would be paid for out of their refund. After they go once, they don't have to go again for 5 years.

If you're too dumb or unaware of your surroundings to know that you can file your taxes for free with a little bit of effort, you need education.

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