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How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

knife-depot.com

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Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#141

Post by smusumeche »

bambax wrote: post #129
smusumeche wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the OP, but I do work for Knife Depot. Google did not ask us to stop advertising for one category of product. They asked us to remove those products from our site, and if we didn't, we could not advertise for ANYTHING via AdWords, including kitchen knives, cutting boards, pocket knives, etc.

Wow. Thanks for the clarification -- I'm sorry I misunderstood. If this is true, it's completely crazy. How does Google think they can tell people what products to sell on their own shops?? Then I would completely agree with what the OP did, of course. In fact, there really was no other way.

Even Google employees realize the hypocracy. Our (unnamed for his safety) rep at Google emailed us with this:

“I am still waiting on an answer to my reply where I asked for a universal enforcement of the policy OR we allow knife depot back online. I replied and said, I refuse to tell knife-depot they need to remove a product category that 7 other competitors are advertising & selling the same products.” I then named each domain, called out the double standard, and requested that they state the clear differences that allows these competitors to serve & knife depot to be suspended. Still waiting on this reply.“

That email was sent over a month ago.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#142

Post by corresation »

daten wrote: post #28
analog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, what? Refusing to advertise knives which are clearly intended to be used as weapons is 'evil' now is it?

As the OP explains, the knives in question are not illegal and not in violation of Google's policies. Additionally, other vendors selling the same items are not being banned. I think the "evil" part relates to discriminating against certain vendors instead of treating all vendors equally and consistently.

As the OP explains, the knives in question are not illegal and not in violation of Google's policies

They ARE in a clear violation of Google's policy which prohibits selling knives as weapons. They seem to have some confusion about the word of the ban, but as I linked elsewhere - http://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/answer/176077?hl=en

This is not at all unclear. The examples of banned knives are not the exhaustive set.

And for what it's worth, assisted opening knives are only legal by the most marginal of gray areas (that the "button" is laughably a part of the blade rather than the side handle).

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#143

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

betterunix wrote: post #117
analog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, what? Refusing to advertise knives which are clearly intended to be used as weapons is 'evil' now is it?

Knives are among the oldest and most versatile tools known to man. I have, on occasion, used my pocket knife as a gardening tool, screwdriver, box cutter, prying tool, wire stripper, wire cutter, torque wrench, and hammer. It is not the best tool for any of the above, but sometimes you just lack the time needed to go back to your garage and get your toolbox. Nothing about "assisted opening knives" makes them "clearly…

Actually it appears as though Google demanded that they stop selling those knives altogether, not just stop advertising them through AdWords.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#144

Post by cromwellian »

josefresco wrote: post #7

Being an AdWords veteran (having managed campaigns for several clients) all I could do was nod my head grumble under my breath about how this is "business as usual" for Google. One of my clients who was selling in the health market had this and other seemingly "unfair" treatments happen again and again over the years. All the while Google was taking money from Canadian "pharmacies" and allowing big brand competitors…

Google got sued over online drug ads before and had to pay $500 million in fines. The US Government was even running a criminal probe against Google that could have put executives in jail for these kinds of ads. So you can only imagine they are a lot more careful now given that experience.

Alcohol, Weapons, and Drugs are areas regulated by various governments around the world and carry civil and criminal policies for even small violations.

You say health market, but don't specify details. Might this have been for quack homeopathy junk, diet pills that don't work, vitamins? Every time I hear a health related ad on the radio it is for some bullshit product backed by outright lies about "clinical studies show NutriWeightBlah will lose you 20 pounds in only 2 weeks", and bogus testimonials.

If Google is shutting down ads for that kind of product, I can only give them kudos, for essentially banning con-men who take advantage of desperate people.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#145

Post by corresation »

vacri wrote: post #82
kamjam wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bullsh*t, knives kill just as guns do. In the UK we have many more knife related crime than we do gun related crime. That said, the issue here is not how lethal one is over the other, but Google playing judge,jury and executioner for something they should have no right to jurisdict over.

The UK has knife crime but not knife murder , despite what the fearmongering press would have you believe. The UK murder rate is a quarter that of the US, and is in line with similar countries.

This is a gigantic diversion, but saying that the UK doesn't have knife murder is pretty profoundly ignorant. The last stat I saw was that the UK had some 330+ stabbing murders a year.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#146

Post by smusumeche »

jawns wrote: post #2

I'd be curious to know where Knife Depot is putting its advertising dollars now that it's not spending on AdWords.

Not the OP, but I do work for Knife Depot. There is no real viable alternative advertising company that can compare to Google. This is the heart of the problem.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#147

Post by rdl »

maxcan wrote: post #136
rdl wrote: post #6

I'm in favor of banning porn ads (generally), since those tend to be offensive to a lot of people and also are highly correlated with spammy behavior, but I'd be tempted to boycott a vendor who prohibited weapons ads for any reason other than legal compliance. Amazon is pretty reasonable (knives are fine, firearms accessories are fine, but firearms and ammunition are out due to compliance issues). Google has no excus…

I find weapons ads far more offensive than porn ads. Our natural form vs a device whose sole intent is to obliterate said natural form. How come your measure of offense is more important than mine? Also, if you want to play community standards, I'm pretty sure the majority of the people who live around Google HQ (Bay Area + SF) would agree with me.

I meant the actual ads themselves, not particularly the products. The average porn banner ad is an assault on the eyes, even if you're in the market for porn. I don't know if this is inherent to porn or just because it's an impulse-buy information good which is usually advertises through multiple levels of affiliate. Most firearms or knife ads are the name of the product and maybe a static shot of the product. e.g. http://www.blackfriday.fm/bf_image/big/2011/37266_1321045669...

It's a fair argument that porn is pure free speech and thus should be less regulated than guns, or that it's morally superior (although I'd say sex is morally superior to violence; porn is in some most cases morally inferior to sex)

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#148

Post by corresation »

ianstallings wrote: post #49
analog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, what? Refusing to advertise knives which are clearly intended to be used as weapons is 'evil' now is it?

Fold out knife is intended as a weapon? Don't tell the other fisherman. They may get scared.

No one using a knife as a tool is going to buy an assisted opening knife. Aside from usage reliability considerations, having it trigger unintentionally (again, a tool they would handle constantly) would be a major concern.

This is product sold only to teenage boys desperately seeking that high of invincibility.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#149

Post by rdl »

wyager wrote: post #112
ori_b wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ignored the important part: "Due to compliance issues". I'm not familiar with the legal issues. However, it is perfectly reasonable for Amazon to comply with the law. Perhaps the laws are stupid, but that's not Amazon's fight.

The compliant issues you mention (for the most part) do not exist. There are very few extra legal limitations for selling ammunition over the internet. These legal limitations could be shifted to third-party retailers, with Amazon as a middleman only. There are literally no extra legal limitations or regulations for a company selling (non-firearm) firearm parts, which Amazon does not allow. Selling ammunition require…

I didn't realize Amazon didn't allow non-firearm firearms parts, since I've bought ~10k in knoxx stocks, slings, sidesaddles, ammo holders, holsters, etc. through their marketplace. It's possible they just don't enforce it very well.

Apparently their policy (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...) allows a lot of things, but not other things, in a not entirely consistent way. Primers and brass are ok, but not bullets. Stocks are fine, but not barrels. wtf.

There are some parts where Amazon would have liability. Magazines, for instance, especially since Amazon likes to be able to warehouse items wherever it finds most convenient. 30 round magazines would be really complex given that some states ban them.

Re: How Google Sliced Away Our Knife Ads

#150

Post by conductr »

Google's not the only one who bans you. I'm at work: "This Websense category is filtered: Weapons."

Yes, I work for a big company that filters the web and it does suck for me... but since a lot of people shop online while at work, it also sucks for you

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