Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#81

Post by 0x00_ » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:55 PM UTC

rietta wrote: post #9

To the OP, it would seem reasonable to inquire with an attorney about petitioning to have the conviction set aside. I am not a lawyer, but it seems that a restoration of rights via means of an expungement or even a Presidential pardon would be avenues likely open for you.

Thanks rietta. Unfortunately presidential pardons are difficult to get without help from a political connection.

Based on the data (http://www.justice.gov/pardon/statistics.htm) in addition to the cumulative experience of those who have turned their lives around for decades and still been denied, I made a decision to try that later when I have a better history to present in my petition.

As you can see, the odds are scary. My chances of getting one without a friend in government (or part of a lobbying body) are really slim.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#82

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:56 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #39

osteele wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out, and then they aren't referenceable. If I were hiring for a security-related job, I'd consider the poster if he not only disclosed the conviction, but also contextualized it on his cover letter the way that he did in the pastebin, and if he provided some character witnesses (teachers, employers).

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out Long-term job security no longer exists. When you take a job, you are always at risk that it ends. For sure, this risk is real. He might get fired for hiding that detail. On the other hand, that likely means he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Which is worse: getting a job for a couple years,…

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#83

Post by nitrogen » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:57 PM UTC

a_p wrote: post #64

One of the unfair things about the U.S justice system is that not all felonies are created equal. In Virgina, if you are pulled over for driving over 80 miles per hour (even if you are on a steep hill with no one around you or if everyone else is traveling faster than you) you are charged with reckless driving, which is can be a felony or a Class 1 misdemeanor — the same category as Assault & Battery. You will reciev…

There are sections of I-15 where the speed limit is 80MPH. Does Virginia have any such high-limit stretches, such that going 1-5 over is a felony, or is it too densely populated?

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#84

Post by gte910h » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #24

0x00_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh yes. The good ol' hat problem. I never considered remaining silent about it, but most places around here do CORI background checks with the information on CV so It is hard to avoid. Also, a simple google query of my name pulls up quite a few embarrassing news articles. Imagine the fun it was to explain the situation to your spouses parents after they have googled you. Thank you for your response. I will give non-…

Have you thought about using a different name in business? A friend of mine Anglicized his and it fixed a reputation problem. For most people, that'd be a loss. You'd lose your whole reputation. It sounds to me like your reputation is of negative value, given the Google problem. Keep in mind also that Googling happens before interview, and background checks happen after a successful interview. So even if the name-cha…

You're often not allowed to change your name for this sort of reason.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#85

Post by pyre » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:58 PM UTC

largesse wrote: post #44

sethrin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. Department of State (DOS) may deny your passport application or renewal for a number of reasons, including if you: Are in default on a repatriation or medical assistance loan Are behind on child support payments Are subject of certain court orders or a foreign extradition request Were committed to a mental institution, or legally declared incompetent by a court Were subject to a previous denial or revocation…

I wonder.. technically, not having a passport doesn't prevent you from leaving the country. You can get in a boat and take off. Leaving by plane is difficult, as well as legally entering another country. Is it actually illegal to reenter the US as a citizen without a US passport? I would hope that as a US citizen you have a right to entry and visiting a US Consulate in another country would start the process regardle…

  | Is it actually illegal to reenter the US as
  | a citizen without a US passport?

I've talked to the border patrol over the phone about this before (with relation to re-entering with an expired passport). As an American citizen, you can't be denied re-entry into the country. Without proper documentation, you might get tied up at the border while proving you are an American citizen (though I'm not sure what lengths they would go to to figure out if you really are a US citizen without even an expired passport though).

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#86

Post by michaelochurch » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 8:59 PM UTC

acjohnson55 wrote: post #73

michaelochurch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out Long-term job security no longer exists. When you take a job, you are always at risk that it ends. For sure, this risk is real. He might get fired for hiding that detail. On the other hand, that likely means he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Which is worse: getting a job for a couple years,…

Extortion? You're just full of great advice, now aren't you? Lying on your application and extorting people risks torching an already damaged reputation, not to mention potentially huge civil and even criminal liabilities. To the OP, I recommend ditching the Machiavellian stuff. The best bet in my opinion is to network and contribute to projects where possible (such as through OSS, freelance, etc.). If people actuall…

We're talking about what to do in rare but extremely bad situations where there are literally no good avenues... not what people should do in normal circumstances.

"Extortion" was too strong a word. I meant it in the sense of "aggressive negotiation". Demanding a positive reference not to blow something humiliating is not extortion. If you demand money not to blow something, you're breaking the law, because there's no connection between the payoff and the threat (exposure). However, with a reference, it's "we're going to part ways, but it's best for both of us that we tell the same story, so let's get straight about what just happened". That's how you present it. Not really extortion.

Your advice to OP has a lot of value and on the whole I agree with what you are telling him to do. OSS contributions are a really good idea for him.

However, I still contend that an "odds and evens" mixed strategy will perform better than full disclosure.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#87

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 9:03 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #86

acjohnson55 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extortion? You're just full of great advice, now aren't you? Lying on your application and extorting people risks torching an already damaged reputation, not to mention potentially huge civil and even criminal liabilities. To the OP, I recommend ditching the Machiavellian stuff. The best bet in my opinion is to network and contribute to projects where possible (such as through OSS, freelance, etc.). If people actuall…

We're talking about what to do in rare but extremely bad situations where there are literally no good avenues... not what people should do in normal circumstances. "Extortion" was too strong a word. I meant it in the sense of "aggressive negotiation". Demanding a positive reference not to blow something humiliating is not extortion. If you demand money not to blow something, you're breaking the law, because there's n…

Demanding, using "strong negotiation", a positive reference from somebody to whom you lied about your criminal status seems like a good way to get a billboard erected with your face and a URL to your LinkedIn profile on 101.

This isn't the first HN comment you've left where you suggested playing hardball to get positive references from employers. You have an idiosyncratic view of the dynamics of employee references. I find it disquieting, but that obviously doesn't make it intrinsically wrong. I do feel safe saying that it is out of step with the way most employers view the same dynamics.

(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5007550 - "For me, it's really about references. I don't need a severance, but if you don't agree on a good reference I will do everything in my power to fuck up your reputation.")

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#88

Post by 0x00_ » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 9:03 PM UTC

rwhitman wrote: post #61

0x00_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have tried this approach and it has failed me. The biggest problem with being independent is landing clients who are in need of the service. I have also tried shotgun approach via private vulnerability disclosure. At best it typically results in nothing more than 'thanks' -- but most frequent is outright ignoring, angry response, bruised egos, threats with law enforcement, and general unpleasantry. -- so I've learn…

Put a way to contact you on your HN profile. You are on the frontpage and will probably get a few leads. Don't waste the opportunity to score freelance clients out of your post...

Oh? The front page? Whoo hoo! (is that hard here? it's hard on reddit) I've gone ahead done that just-in-case. I am not really here looking for active leads (though I certainly wouldn't throw away an opportunity if it presented itself as a result of this posting), but some of these responses have been really uplifting.

I am really here pinging this community for people that have been in or have dealt with the circumstances of my disposition who would like to take a moment and give some pointers. So far the response has been better than I had anticipated.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#89

Post by michaelochurch » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #82

michaelochurch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out Long-term job security no longer exists. When you take a job, you are always at risk that it ends. For sure, this risk is real. He might get fired for hiding that detail. On the other hand, that likely means he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Which is worse: getting a job for a couple years,…

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

For reasons of self-interest, most employers are not going to fuck with their exes' reputations after parting ways.

There are exceptions-- sometimes you have to hire legal professionals and very occasionally one might have to hire illegal professionals to make someone do the right thing-- but those are way outside of the norm.

If he does good work and still gets fired, it's probably by a boss who had little choice in the decision and doesn't want to fuck him over, not someone who's going to be vengeful and make a bigger mess than what already exists.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#90

Post by rms » Sun, Mar 24, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #82

michaelochurch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out Long-term job security no longer exists. When you take a job, you are always at risk that it ends. For sure, this risk is real. He might get fired for hiding that detail. On the other hand, that likely means he wouldn't have gotten the job in the first place. Which is worse: getting a job for a couple years,…

You seem to be working under the delusion that the worst thing that can happen if you lie to your employer is that you might lose your job. No.

Criminal prosecution for fraud? Does that really happen with any regularity? I think by far the most common consequence of being caught lying about a felony is firing with cause.