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Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

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Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#21

Post by rocky1138 »

akkartik wrote: post #6

I've been at several startups and never undergone a background check, to my knowledge. I've never been asked any "Have you ever..?" questions. So this is less of an issue than you might think. I get the sense companies only start doing background checks when they grow large enough to become targets for litigation.

Or when you're applying at a place without having a good friend that works there who can vouch for you/friends with the CEO, etc.

Networking gets past almost any trouble, where trouble is defined as the sort of thing that shouldn't stop you from getting hired but does.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#22

Post by devonbarrett »

losvedir wrote: post #14
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

That's an interesting story. As a counterpoint, since we're all just dealing in anecdotes here, I had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question"; I was suspended for "hacking", albeit after voluntarily telling my principal about it. I disclosed it on my applications, while my high school did not. I was still accepted to MIT and Stanford. I later learned that MIT actually called my high school to get clarificatio…

Just a curious thought, if you was applying for a CS course, do you think it could have actually had a positive impact on chances?

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#23

Post by matt_heimer »

Any other career choice you will probably be worse off. At least in the CS world you might be able to spin it as a positive if you specialize in security. Freelance work is also an option. Assuming you are trying to get a degree to be more employable, the places that require a degree are also likely to avoid hiring you. The degree does show some measure of reform so places that hire on merit will probably like that you have a degree.

Background checks are really cheap. I've worked at really small companies that outsource most of HR and payroll to a larger company. Those places always do the background checks, don't think that smaller places won't do a background check. If you lie and they ever find out that's an instant firing.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#24

Post by michaelochurch »

0x00_ wrote: post #17
michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

Ahh yes. The good ol' hat problem. I never considered remaining silent about it, but most places around here do CORI background checks with the information on CV so It is hard to avoid. Also, a simple google query of my name pulls up quite a few embarrassing news articles. Imagine the fun it was to explain the situation to your spouses parents after they have googled you. Thank you for your response. I will give non-…

Have you thought about using a different name in business? A friend of mine Anglicized his and it fixed a reputation problem.

For most people, that'd be a loss. You'd lose your whole reputation. It sounds to me like your reputation is of negative value, given the Google problem.

Keep in mind also that Googling happens before interview, and background checks happen after a successful interview. So even if the name-change won't get you around a formal check (by some stable identifier like SSN) you can at least control the time of disclosure.

The ugly thing about being Googled is that you don't know when or if it happens. Name change gets you the interview and then, if you're pretty sure they'll find it in a more thorough check, you can disclose it on your terms.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#25

Post by 0x00_ »

auctiontheory wrote: post #4

Now, more than ever, you don't need to work for someone else (as an employee). If you have the skills, you can do very well as a freelancer/consultant. The pay can be good, the work can be interesting, and they won't run a background check on you.

I have tried this approach and it has failed me. The biggest problem with being independent is landing clients who are in need of the service.

I have also tried shotgun approach via private vulnerability disclosure. At best it typically results in nothing more than 'thanks' -- but most frequent is outright ignoring, angry response, bruised egos, threats with law enforcement, and general unpleasantry. -- so I've learned to avoid doing that.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#27

Post by justizin »

Nobody cares at a job worth doing. Don't apply for IT departments, apply for mid to late stage startups in the bay area or other intense tech areas.

I don't know anyone who would be worried about giving you the root password to hundreds of machines because you broke more exciting rules when you were younger than we did.

Stop telling yourself that you can't have what you want, and get it!

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#29

Post by 0x00_ »

devonbarrett wrote: post #22
losvedir wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting story. As a counterpoint, since we're all just dealing in anecdotes here, I had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question"; I was suspended for "hacking", albeit after voluntarily telling my principal about it. I disclosed it on my applications, while my high school did not. I was still accepted to MIT and Stanford. I later learned that MIT actually called my high school to get clarificatio…

Just a curious thought, if you was applying for a CS course, do you think it could have actually had a positive impact on chances?

Well, to be honest I figured it wouldn't hurt my chances. I've learned more from google and boredom with a heavy dose of frustration than I've ever learned in school.

All of my associates in the field do not have to deal with this issue and maintain the perspective that actual experience is more important than education. I've an incredible obstacle to surmount and it matters to me that I have documented training. It's just one-less-thing standing in the way.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#30

Post by osteele »

michaelochurch wrote: post #2

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and there's a hell of a lot of risk in what I'm going to tell you to do. When I was a teenager, someone I knew did something nonviolent but pretty bad (severe academic dishonesty) and had a non-empty answer to the "Discipline Question". You might judge me negatively for keeping such a person as a friend-- and I shouldn't have, but that's another story-- but at…

If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out, and then they aren't referenceable.

If I were hiring for a security-related job, I'd consider the poster if he not only disclosed the conviction, but also contextualized it on his cover letter the way that he did in the pastebin, and if he provided some character witnesses (teachers, employers).

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