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Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

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Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#61

Post by rwhitman »

0x00_ wrote: post #25
auctiontheory wrote: post #4

Now, more than ever, you don't need to work for someone else (as an employee). If you have the skills, you can do very well as a freelancer/consultant. The pay can be good, the work can be interesting, and they won't run a background check on you.

I have tried this approach and it has failed me. The biggest problem with being independent is landing clients who are in need of the service. I have also tried shotgun approach via private vulnerability disclosure. At best it typically results in nothing more than 'thanks' -- but most frequent is outright ignoring, angry response, bruised egos, threats with law enforcement, and general unpleasantry. -- so I've learn…

Put a way to contact you on your HN profile. You are on the frontpage and will probably get a few leads. Don't waste the opportunity to score freelance clients out of your post...

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#62

Post by wilfra »

taligent wrote: post #38
jaysonelliot wrote: post #20

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter, that doesn't need to be the end of the story. For myself as an entrepreneur looking for great developers, I don't give a whit about some dalliances from your youth. In fact, if the exploit was great enough, it might even be a selling point for your creativity and technical skill. Be up front about who you are, and look for startups that will appr…

While some larger corporations might not let you through the HR filter I've worked for quite a few large corporations i.e Fortune 50 and not a single one has done a police record check. Unless you are applying for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NSA or something similar it frankly is none of their business.

"it frankly is none of their business."

Ignoring the merits of this statement, they certainly think it is their business. Even running credit checks on job seekers is common practice now. If you worked in white-collar positions at multiple Fortune 50 companies and never had a background check done, that's definitely not typical.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#63

Post by JDGM »

michaelochurch wrote: post #41
JDGM wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you hide it you risk being discharged a month, a year, or five years from now when your employer finds out, and then they aren't referenceable." This, this, a million times this. It's not even losing the job that would be the worst for me, it would be the paranoia of turning up to work every day thinking "Did they find out about that thing now? Are they considering firing me or did they decide it didn't matter? A…

There's a Calvin & Hobbes strip where Calvin breaks his dad's binoculars and is certain at the dinner table that night that his father knows. The anxiety gets to Calvin so much that after about 30 seconds (this is Calvin, remember) he breaks down and confesses. That would so be me in an employment situation where there was something I hadn't disclosed which could lead to dismissal. Everything you have said on the Int…

Upvoted, I think that's a very fair point. From Calvin and Hobbes to Montaigne: "There is no man so good that if he placed all his actions and thoughts under the scrutiny of the laws, he would not deserve hanging ten times in his life".

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#64

Post by a_p »

One of the unfair things about the U.S justice system is that not all felonies are created equal. In Virgina, if you are pulled over for driving over 80 miles per hour (even if you are on a steep hill with no one around you or if everyone else is traveling faster than you) you are charged with reckless driving, which is can be a felony or a Class 1 misdemeanor — the same category as Assault & Battery. You will recieve a $3000 dollar fine, and could be convicted of a felony if you don't hire an expensive lawyer , and/or if the judge is in a bad mood that day.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#65

Post by 0x00_ »

ebbv wrote: post #57

After almost 20 years in the industry my considered advice is pursue another career. That might not be the answer you want to hear but after thinking about it a bit that's my honest advice. Here's the reasons: - Of all the employers I've had not one of them would have hired you. - If somehow you "snuck in" and your past came to light, you would have been fired anywhere I've worked. - Unless I knew you really well per…

Thank you for your response. After reading many of the other responses it is nice to have this perspective here for other posters to see -- because it is very real to me.

This is essentially what someone like me encounters every time they try. It's a really unfortunate part of my reality and other posters should understand that it's not simply "just a felony" -- not when equally qualified applicants do not have any "issues" like this.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#68

Post by 0x00_ »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #58
ams6110 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything in the financial sector will get you fingerprinted and at least a cursory FBI records check.

Quite true. I worked for large digital agencies for much of my career until now, and while we may or may not do our own background checks (I don't know since I was not in HR), I've had a number of clients in the financial sector over the years. If I had been unable to pass a background check with a client, it would have been detrimental to my position at the agency, to say the least.

Unfortunately true. I've encountered that problem where I am now and have had to sign so many agreements with legal dept heads from other agencies that I've lost count. My employer (work in NPO sector) has really assumed some really huge risks by having my on board. The approach for me being exposed to certain at-risk data (at my work there are ssn from clients, login credentials to affiliated networks ran by my state) is routinely addressed by sign NDA as a group of lawyers threaten to destroy me if anything should go awry.

The director of the agency where I work has been tremendously instrumental in arguing and supporting me in these instances.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#69

Post by curiousfiddler »

I have another idea. Either you can go on fighting the rejections and slowly building a brand for yourself when your past will no longer matter (I can't comment on whether your current situation is indeed that bad), or you could try graduate school. From what it sounds, you seem to be interested not just in programming, but the more abstract principles and reasoning required in designing software systems. Graduate school can help you channelize that interest and who knows, you might make a name for your self in academia.

You will need some money for that though, but I personally consider that investment worth the potential experience that you can get at graduate school. More valuable than buying a fancy car.

Re: Ask HN: Overcomming a federal conviction (computer fraud) for decent job?

#70

Post by smoyer »

You've created an eloquent plea for advice on how to answer the question, and I guess my answer is that you need to be that eloquent when explaining why you want a particular job.

There is something in your favor ... none of the good jobs (i.e. the ones you want) are going to be filled by people that only fill out the job application. My last three jobs included me filling the job application out (for the HR drones to say it was complete) after the interviews were done and a hiring agreement was reached. So my advice is to network, push your way into the minds and hearts of the employers you'd like to work for, then let them hire you. Make sure the person making the hiring decision hears this story and assure them it's ancient history.

When you finally get around to filling out the job application, be honest and when you get to the conviction question, don't check either box. If it's a paper form, write "see attachment" and affix a copy of the letter you just posted. For an on-line application, ask to meet with HR instead of filling out the on-line form. In both cases, let HR know that the hiring manager knows the details of the story and is unconcerned.

So the bigger question is where do you live (or where would you like to live?)... you can start building your network on HN today!

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