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Academia Is Eating Its Young

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Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#81

All I saw in that post is basically: - Science is broken and needs to be fixed - A 22-year-old bioengineer taught himself how to code - The author started Microryza and now this is on the HN front page. Did I miss an important sentence somewhere, or is that the actual summary?

It fits the meme of "entrepreneur saves the world with a simple hack that revolutionizes a stagnant market", so it gets upvoted by people who aren't as familiar with academia (i.e. most people here) and thus can's see past their biases and through the platitudes.

Science is notoriously bad at fixing its own problems. The meme plays well on HN because most people here believe in building solutions for themselves.

We were scientists. We didn't want to deal with stupid shit. So we built something for ourselves. This is my cofounder crowdfunding her own project: https://www.microryza.com/projects/repurposing-potential-ant...

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who exactly decides how to allocate these grants? Professional federal government bureaucrats? Fellow professors in the field? Do you have any insight on why they choose to allocate the grants in such an inefficient way? Is the classic "no one ever gets blamed for buying the name brand" dynamic (where the famous professor is the "name" brand)? Or is it more sinister insider dealing and back scratching?

I've never participated in the grant process, so I don't have the full information here, but I do know that grants are scored by other professors in the field. Part of the problem is that the grants are numerically scored, and this scoring is primarily based on the merit of the proposal and the publication record of the lab. The lab budget isn't taken into account, and no one actually checks to make sure the project…

Interesting, thank you for sharing.

I think it's a major problem that there is no external accountability. The grants are scored by peer professors, based on publications (which again requires approval by peers). This creates a bunch of problems 1) it's very easy for entire field or subfield to go down the wrong track, and have no way of getting out of that track because the professors controlling grants and publications are the ones doing the bad research. 2) there is a bias towards publishing research that shows some new finding, rather than research that shows that they could not re-produce some previous science. The entire idea of basing science off of peer review is erroneous IMO, science should advance via replication.

In my ideal world, research would be funded in three, independent streams: 1) Prize based. The government would allocate a yearly budget of some very large amount of money - say $30 billion. It would create competitions and prizes in all sorts of fields. Example contests might include: self-driving car race, robot soccer olympics, longest battery life for $x of total materials used for making the battery, most yield of a plant strain per acre, etc. Teams would receive money for their research in return for placing or winning the contests. Research teams would also get money for achieving objective milestones:

2) Commission based. The government needs some new technology, maybe an upgrade of stealth tech for their fighter planes, so it pays a research institute to develop that tech. Unlink grant based funding, the commission is granted by the outsiders who need the tech, not by professors in the field giving to it to fellow professors.

3) Open Ended Institutional Funding. A certain number of reputable institutions should simply be given permanent annual funding. No grant process, no paperwork, no bureaucracy. The researchers would be overseen by an executive director, and the executive director would be overseen by a board of directors. The board of directors would consist of outside experts with a proven track record. For example, the board of a computer science research university would have people like Google's Urs Hölzle or Guido or Trevor Blackwell. The researchers would not have to apply for grants. They would just have to convince the board of directors that they were generally working on projects that had potential benefit to humanity, or else they would get fired. Every institution would be actually independent, governed by the personal judgement of that institutions board of directors.

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#83

I've been doing a lot of analysis of organizational decline over the past month, and what characterizes R&D (including academia) is extreme convexity: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/gervais-macle... Convexity pertains to the shape of the curve for output (profits, value added, impact) per input (investment, skill, effort, and just plain luck). It pertains to desirable risk behavior (convex => seek ris…

(due to the unsustainable nature of what it takes to get tenure, and midlife burnout) I'm in academia right now, and this is indeed a problem. I generally only meet two kinds of academics: the perpetually tired (like myself) and the perpetually energetic. This may have something to do with the ways our bodies metabolize the utterly ubiquitous, universal stimulants (ie: loads and loads of caffeine) we take to cope wit…

By "middle school" do you mean the US 6th-8th grade (more or less)? Because in "middle school" I wanted to become a cartoonist, not the computer programmer than I ended up being. I personally think that specializing in middle school is way too early.

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#84
Wow, this is an interesting article and I agree with much of it. I've had my PhD for about 2 years now (neurobiology) and I agree that academia is eating..itself. The inefficiency, politics, hostility are some of the things, but much like any other governmental thing, it's just run poorly...and that trickles down to the PIs, students, departments etc. [edit] this got really long, I'm going to create a blog post on this instead and host it at another time [/edit]

Here is an example:I applied to a training grant (t32) that will pay my salary and help me through my PhD. It was not funded initially because my PI's funding was running out in a year. I was applying for funds to continue my education so my PI wouldn't have to pay me (so we could use that money for my research), but they wouldn't fund me because my PI was running out of funds...to fund me.

I resubmitted the exact same grant, with zero changes, but I included a letter staying that I'd be covered if my PI ran out of money. Then I got funded. Total time? 1 Year! It took a year for a paragraph to propagate through the granting agency, as I had to resubmit the grant again and wait 6 months to get a vague answer (priority score).

This is one of many examples I have that are consistent with the OPs article, the system is broken. And this is a wide spread problem that is going to require all of science to really make a change happen. I'm intending on doing so with my startup (just applied to YC) to bring transparency, efficiency, and opportunity to scientists. My goal is to bring the semantic web to academic science to start linking data sets between fields. Positive, negative and pilot data all available in one spot so I can run meta analysis on these data and create preliminary data for a grant or future studies. (there is more to it, but this isn't the place to plug my site)

What I'm most concerned about isn't the technology, it's the people using the technology. I recently got this comment, "Wow, that is a brilliant idea....but good luck getting scientists to use it." The dinosaurs are scared of change, and their fear(ignorance?) is by far the hardest thing I'm going up against. It's also one of the biggest problems we are going to have in science.

Still gotta try though:)

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It fits the meme of "entrepreneur saves the world with a simple hack that revolutionizes a stagnant market", so it gets upvoted by people who aren't as familiar with academia (i.e. most people here) and thus can's see past their biases and through the platitudes.

Science is notoriously bad at fixing its own problems. The meme plays well on HN because most people here believe in building solutions for themselves. We were scientists. We didn't want to deal with stupid shit. So we built something for ourselves. This is my cofounder crowdfunding her own project: https://www.microryza.com/projects/repurposing-potential-ant...

I can't wait to write a grant application targeting the average Internet user rather than experts in my field. That will surely be a productive use of my time, and will undoubtedly result in a more fair distribution of money.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be an asshole and I commend you for your spirit, but I just can't see how you and others think crowdsourcing science funding is a good idea. Science has problems, but Microryza solves none of them and introduces myriad new issues (well, it would introduce new issues if it was successful, but I find that to be a dubious proposition).

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science is notoriously bad at fixing its own problems. The meme plays well on HN because most people here believe in building solutions for themselves. We were scientists. We didn't want to deal with stupid shit. So we built something for ourselves. This is my cofounder crowdfunding her own project: https://www.microryza.com/projects/repurposing-potential-ant...

I can't wait to write a grant application targeting the average Internet user rather than experts in my field. That will surely be a productive use of my time, and will undoubtedly result in a more fair distribution of money. Honestly, I'm not trying to be an asshole and I commend you for your spirit, but I just can't see how you and others think crowdsourcing science funding is a good idea. Science has problems, but…

We openly tell researchers that crowdfunding isn't for everyone, at least not yet.

If it isn't valuable for you, that doesn't mean it can't be valuable for anyone else. Just don't do it and wait around for others to validate it.

I don't believe you're being an asshole. You're just picking up the mantle that being a scientist automagically entitles you to know what's best for other scientists.

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question is what did you pay him? If the job market is really such a buyers market, instead of hiring one guy at $100k/yr, why not hire two at $50k/yr?

You might assume the total cost of those 2 options is equal, but when you look at the overhead/additional compensation (insurance, retirement, etc.) for each position, it might actually be cheaper to hire 1 at 100K rather than 2 at 50K.

> it might actually be cheaper to hire 1 at 100K rather than 2 at 50K

You're totally missing the point. The GP was just giving an example. Adjust the numbers however you want so that the latter option is cheaper.

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#88
post #11

The comments for this article are loading on top of the article itself. It's completely unreadable. Anyone else seeing this?

Sorry, someone else mentioned this. It's working on mine, but I'll get a fix in later.

It's still doing it.

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#89

I've been doing a lot of analysis of organizational decline over the past month, and what characterizes R&D (including academia) is extreme convexity: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/gervais-macle... Convexity pertains to the shape of the curve for output (profits, value added, impact) per input (investment, skill, effort, and just plain luck). It pertains to desirable risk behavior (convex => seek ris…

Hmm, I think the problem is slightly different. The job of a tenured professor in 1980 was pretty sweet. Upper middle class salary, great job security, a soap box from which to influence impressionable minds, freedom to pursue intellectual interests, etc. Naturally, as with any career track that looks pretty sweet, people rush to enter the field. Thus the great numbers of grad students. There are basically three ways…

So what you're saying is that this is an overfitting problem?

Re: Academia Is Eating Its Young

#90
post #84

Wow, this is an interesting article and I agree with much of it. I've had my PhD for about 2 years now (neurobiology) and I agree that academia is eating..itself. The inefficiency, politics, hostility are some of the things, but much like any other governmental thing, it's just run poorly...and that trickles down to the PIs, students, departments etc. [edit] this got really long, I'm going to create a blog post on th…

Thanks for the response. You included real world examples from academia, and your supportive attitude means a lot to us.

I'm really interested in what you're working on. If you need help with your YC app, send me an email and I'd be happy to look through it. (denny_at_microryza.com) I'm always happy to hear what other scientists are working on.

Keep going!

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