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Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#51

Post by pcl »

eric-hu wrote: post #36
pcl wrote: post #28

I'm surprised that the article didn't touch on differences in childhood mortality rates. The theory proposed has always made a lot of sense to me. However, I would expect any reporting on the topic to consider the extent to which the allergy-sufferers amongst us (such as myself) made it through childhood because of better early childhood medical care, thus skewing the later-in-life allergies and autoimmune disease st…

I wondered the same thing. As a follow-up to wazoox's comment, I looked into the mortality rates of the areas for the studies. I couldn't find the infant mortality rates of Petrozavodsk, so I went to region (Republic of Karelia) instead: Infant mortality rate of Karelia in 2000 [1]: 14.4 % Of Finland: [2] 2.6 - 4.5 % So at a 3-7x higher incident rate, infant mortality does seems like a reasonable hypothesis. I wouldn…

Great links, thanks!

Agreed that both probably have an impact. I imagine that there's some sort of scientific method out there to tease out the impacts of the two factors, probably via an aggregation of a number of such studies.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#52

Post by pault »

papaver wrote: post #30

its always amusing to read articles from respected sources about beliefs one has held for a long time. it feels mostly obvious to me that underexposure to germs can lead to more problems than fix. i guess a lot of my beliefs could come from visiting india and less developed countries. its quite scary how many daily/regular routines come from people with ulterior motives. reminds me of the diamond article recent publi…

The thing I most regularly miss about living in Asia is the bum gun. Wiping with paper is so gross.

http://www.memock.com/2011/11/15/the-bum-gun/

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#53

Post by refurb »

There is a company that is putting the hygiene hypotheses to the test. Coronado Bioscience is trying to treat Crohn's disease with pig whipworm eggs. The worms can't live in a human host, but they do develop into full worms and thus trigger the body's immune system.

The initial phase 1 studies were quite remarkable, but I'm keeping an eye out for the phase 2 studies which should provide more robust data.

http://biotechtranslated.com/2011/07/30/the-hygiene-hypothes...

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#54

Post by gwern »

cajuntrep wrote: post #7
tokenadult wrote: post #2

The article reports an interesting observation: "Still, the 500-mile boundary between Finland and this Russian republic marks one of the steepest standard-of-living gradients in the world: Finns are seven times richer than their neighbors across the border. 'The difference is even greater than between Mexico and the U.S.,' Knip tells me." Then the article gets into the main point: "Soon, studies from around the world…

My wife works in a hospital, and she has been trained to always wash her hands. I on the other hand have always said that I am building my immune system by introducing my body to germs. Not sure whose right here, but interesting theory nonetheless.

I think the hygiene hypothesis implies a golden mean: enough immune challenge to keep it functioning normally, but then too much challenge is just bad.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#55

Post by saraid216 »

veemjeem wrote: post #19
cajuntrep wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife works in a hospital, and she has been trained to always wash her hands. I on the other hand have always said that I am building my immune system by introducing my body to germs. Not sure whose right here, but interesting theory nonetheless.

Since nurses & doctors work with so many patients, it's very easy for them to carry someone else's disease to another room with a weaker immune system.

Yup. And they wash their hands before and after to avoid cross-contamination with people outside the hospital.

This is the same reason cooks are supposed to be careful about doing this as well: if they contaminate the food, that's a vector for spreading stuff. It simply matters a little less because the actual process of cooking has sanitation purposes.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#56

Post by rdl »

veemjeem wrote: post #19
cajuntrep wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife works in a hospital, and she has been trained to always wash her hands. I on the other hand have always said that I am building my immune system by introducing my body to germs. Not sure whose right here, but interesting theory nonetheless.

Since nurses & doctors work with so many patients, it's very easy for them to carry someone else's disease to another room with a weaker immune system.

It's also that there are people in hospitals who are exceptionally sick, too. I was always a lot less worried in a trauma-focused hospital than in local clinics which served local nationals with a variety of illnesses and huge numbers of parasites.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#57

Post by rdl »

wslh wrote: post #43
Dylan16807 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure he wasn't talking about type 2?

She was not scientific on her speech and since she often lies it is not something to take very seriously.

She's not exactly a scientific, moral, or economic authority, anyway.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#58

Post by mikaelgramont »

lawtguy wrote: post #6
tokenadult wrote: post #2

The article reports an interesting observation: "Still, the 500-mile boundary between Finland and this Russian republic marks one of the steepest standard-of-living gradients in the world: Finns are seven times richer than their neighbors across the border. 'The difference is even greater than between Mexico and the U.S.,' Knip tells me." Then the article gets into the main point: "Soon, studies from around the world…

I find the "Old Friends" hypothesis a good answer for why hygiene causes allergies: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1774411/ The basic idea is that the human immune system has co-evolved with a number of immune suppressing parasites. Hygiene has greatly reduced the number of these parasites we're exposed to and without them the human immune system is too reactive. That extra reactivity results in our immu…

It's like Wolverine's healing factor that went crazy once Magneto stripped the adamantium off his bones.

Re: Dirt may explain why richest countries suffer diseases rarely seen anywhere else

#59

Post by contrariano »

tokenadult wrote: post #2

The article reports an interesting observation: "Still, the 500-mile boundary between Finland and this Russian republic marks one of the steepest standard-of-living gradients in the world: Finns are seven times richer than their neighbors across the border. 'The difference is even greater than between Mexico and the U.S.,' Knip tells me." Then the article gets into the main point: "Soon, studies from around the world…

On a note related to pollen allergies, I have been suffering with pollen allergies as long as I have known. I have taken claritin/zyrtec/flonase etc only when it became very difficult to function. I have been looking for a natural cure for last 10 years. Where I currently live in US, pollen count is really high. As a kid I have lived in a poor country which wasn't hygienic, I dont think it contributed in any manner with the current allergies.

Finally this year I managed to find almost natural cure (hopefully permanent). I have been taking Apple Cider Vinegar (popular brand) with local honey for more than two months. Apparently, it seems to have changed my body's pH which helps ensure there is no auto-immune reaction to allergies. I can now go outdoors even during high pollen season. Additionally I have also given up Dairy, not sure if it contributed to the cure.

More here: http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/allergies.html#APPLECIDER

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