Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

youell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 266 posts

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#231

Post by reledi »

w-ll wrote: post #222
mindcrime wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are issues and yours are details. I certainly drilled down into more detail, but I'm not convinced that there's as much of a dichotomy there as you may see. Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying, but I'd counter that "details matter" and that different details matter more to some people than others. Also, I certainly don't intend that list to be seen as an alternative to your list, I mean it to be additiv…

You lost me in caring about what the office looked like and what hardware you got. Who cares? I don't! I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever! PERIOD! edw519's questions provoke conversation, where yours provoke sales talk.

> I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever!

So can everyone else, it's just not enjoyable for some people if they're stuck in a shitty office space with shitty hardware. Who wants to work at a place where they don't enjoy working?

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#232

Post by MojoJolo »

w-ll wrote: post #222
mindcrime wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are issues and yours are details. I certainly drilled down into more detail, but I'm not convinced that there's as much of a dichotomy there as you may see. Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying, but I'd counter that "details matter" and that different details matter more to some people than others. Also, I certainly don't intend that list to be seen as an alternative to your list, I mean it to be additiv…

You lost me in caring about what the office looked like and what hardware you got. Who cares? I don't! I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever! PERIOD! edw519's questions provoke conversation, where yours provoke sales talk.

I disagree. I once tried coding an iOS app in a Windows 7 laptop using a hacked VMWare to run Mac OS X. And I will not do it again. The amount of time beach ball of death shows is greater than the time I saw the normal cursor. It's so damn hard!

So if you want me to code something for you, supply me the required hardware for it.

And no, you can't hack on whatever hardware.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#233

Post by Radim »

zanny wrote: post #144
VikingCoder wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire country graduated less than 10k people from CS programs in 2010. I've gotten into a debate with some friends about this: a degree on a resume is really great, but it's not necessary for the vast majority of programming jobs. > helping a local company offering $95k salary and benefits I hear that driving a truck in the North Dakota oil boom can earn you $150k, to start. Even in a Buyer's Market, you have…

> You just told me that CS graduates can still be completely incompetent, but then you expressed surprise that apparently degrees don't matter that much any more. =) In his defense, and as a recent grad with my CS degree this last year, the curriculum doesn't really sell itself at all for professional software development. Knowing algorithms / language theory / OS theory / theory in general doesn't mean you can throw…

you probably mean "Monte Carlo".

those liberal arts places... :-)

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#234

Post by lsc »

reledi wrote: post #231
w-ll wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me in caring about what the office looked like and what hardware you got. Who cares? I don't! I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever! PERIOD! edw519's questions provoke conversation, where yours provoke sales talk.

> I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever! So can everyone else, it's just not enjoyable for some people if they're stuck in a shitty office space with shitty hardware. Who wants to work at a place where they don't enjoy working?

More to the point, if you are paying someone six figures to write code, trying to save a few hundred bucks a year by giving them hardware they don't like is just plain stupid.

I mean, as an employee, I don't care that much 'cause i'll bring in my own stuff if you don't provide me with hardware I like... but my experience? employers get itchy if you do this with more than, say, a keyboard. Most places don't want me supplying my own workstation/laptop, which is fine, so long as they buy me reasonable hardware to work on.

I'm reminded of one place I contracted at where they gave me a P3 windows box (this was in the mid-oughts) - I mean, they were paying me like $70/hr. They wouldn't let me bring my own hardware, either. I go to put linux on the thing, you know, make it usable; and the IT guy finds out (well, I ask him for a blank DVD) Anyhow, he goes all 'Mordak' on me and tells me that I should just sit there in front of my useless computer and "think about what I did" or something like that.

I mean, I understand that some places want me to use their hardware, and let their IT people handle it... which is fine, if they are wiling to do a competent job of it.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#235

Post by lsc »

w-ll wrote: post #222
mindcrime wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are issues and yours are details. I certainly drilled down into more detail, but I'm not convinced that there's as much of a dichotomy there as you may see. Nonetheless, I understand what you're saying, but I'd counter that "details matter" and that different details matter more to some people than others. Also, I certainly don't intend that list to be seen as an alternative to your list, I mean it to be additiv…

You lost me in caring about what the office looked like and what hardware you got. Who cares? I don't! I can hack on whatever; whenever; with whatever! PERIOD! edw519's questions provoke conversation, where yours provoke sales talk.

>edw519's questions provoke conversation, where yours provoke sales talk.

This... is actually kindof interesting. See, I would see it the other way around. Working conditions are real things that effect me day-to-day.

My experience? usually when you go work somewhere, your /actual/ job has absolutely nothing to do with what you got interviewed for. All this talk about 'the problem the company is trying to solve' is, well, marketing bullshit.

Hell, if you are hired on early, the people running the company don't (actually) know the answer to that question beyond "make enough money to cover payroll."

If you are hired on late, usually, your job is to do what your managers want, not to try to do what the company needs. Usually, if you do the latter, you will spend all your time in conflict with existing management structures.

I mean, part of that is that people are stupid, sure, and everyone wants to protect and grow their little kingdoms.

But part of that is that even if you really are as good as you think you are at your role (and most people aren't) you don't know everything.

I know that as a young sysadmin I got into a bunch of fights with my boss about how to do things. Now that I have my own company? my employees sometimes get into fights with me over the exact same things. I mean, now that I've gotta look at it from the business perspective as well as the technical perspective, I can see where my boss was coming from way back when.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#236

Post by onemorepassword »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #83
pekk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's a buyer's market. And this kind of thing shows it. But for some reason we keep hearing that there is a massive talent shortage. Hmm...

Ahhh....I think the two concepts (buyers market vs. talent shortage) are related. It's a "Buyer's Market" right now for average talent. And honestly, most start-ups only need average (competent) talent. But if you need above-average talent, there's a perpetual shortage. Speaking from experience (and I'm NOT a name you've likely heard of -- I'm just a generalist who is good at low-level through high-level code and API…

The bar in this business is still so low that "average" talent is utterly useless and nowhere near "competent".

Step outside the HN bubble and you'll know that this business is still seriously fucked, and not getting any better. The only thing that has improved is that many of us, both employers and developers, have gotten better at isolation ourselves from it.

We maintain our own little bubble of online communities, conferences and meetups (always the same faces right, never the other 90%) so well that we actually think tech is getting better.

Until you start seeing the CV's and talk to candidates from "outside". It's depressing. I wouldn't call that a "Buyer's Market" when it's almost uniformly shit.

And it has been that way for as long as I can remember. For the 25+ years I've been in this business any decent programmer can take their pick of offers withing a few weeks, crisis or no crisis.

It's a Seller's Market if you have something to offer. Always has been, at least since the 80's.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#237

Post by fecak »

vinceguidry wrote: post #138
kybernetyk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unqualified/foreign/unmotivated Interesting choice of words ...

Unqualified: One of the questions they asked me was the difference between a TCP and a UDP packet. I assume this question tripped up earlier applicants. Foreign: On their ad, they specified that they couldn't sponsor H1-B Visas, because they had a lot of replies asking for that. They didn't want to deal with a language barrier. Unmotivated: I learned after I took the job that of those applicants that weren't A or B,…

Companies unwilling to do H1B visa sponsorship probably are not refraining due to language barrier issues. There is a cost, both money and time involved that small shops simply can't afford.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#238

Post by clebio »

Radim wrote: post #233
zanny wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just told me that CS graduates can still be completely incompetent, but then you expressed surprise that apparently degrees don't matter that much any more. =) In his defense, and as a recent grad with my CS degree this last year, the curriculum doesn't really sell itself at all for professional software development. Knowing algorithms / language theory / OS theory / theory in general doesn't mean you can throw…

you probably mean "Monte Carlo". those liberal arts places... :-)

I assumed I just didn't know what the 'Monte Hall' approach was! :)

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#239

Post by potatolicious »

zanny wrote: post #139
potatolicious wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be somewhat blunt - but this isn't meant as disrespect for you. The software industry is highly bimodal. There are two very, very clear camps - you fall into the other camp than most HNers. The market for mid-top end talent is a huge sellers market. There aren't enough people to go around, salaries inflate double-digit percentages every year, and crazily does not seem to be stopping. The market for low-end warm-…

I agree on the two camps ideology, and this is HN after all, so I'll ask - how to you get into the sellers market? I graduated with my CS degree with an ok 3.4 GPA recently, and I cast a wide net on jobs from Django to openCL, but everywhere I apply I either get cold shoulders, a 30 minute phone interview that never gets a response even with follow up, or rejection on a lack of project experience. I've been working F…

Sorry about the late reply - I've been mostly cut off from the internet (mostly due to hotel charging exorbitant rate).

You've touched on one of the most involved and complicated questions in our industry. There are many qualified coders stucks on proverbial other side of the fence for no good reason.

The short answers, for me, is blind ass luck. I did well in high school, stumbled my ass (unintentionally) into what turned out to be a prestige school, stumbled into some interesting internships with well-known companies, and as a result attracted the attention of one of the "A-level" tech employers, whose name on my resume put me on the correct side of the fence (the employer is Amazon, btw).

It's not just the resume effect - being in said companies also puts you in a network of people already in the camp, which opens up networking and job opportunities also.

Being in the right camp is a self-reinforcing phenomenon. You get jobs at a particular level, with a particular type of employer, which in turn attracts more of that sort of employer. Unfortunately, the inverse is also true - if you're outside the camp, you attract the other employers, and your resume begins to look less and less like a resume from within the camp.

None of this particularly helps you, even if it does explain why you can't seem to get into the camp.

Here are some tips - but keep in mind that I've been in the camp from "the beginning" (i.e., right out of school) so I really cannot vouch, first-hand, how well these will work for you.

- Network more. A lot more. Look at technologies being used within the camp (Rails, Node, etc) vs. tech being used outside the camp (VB.NET, JavaBeans, etc), and learn according to where you want to be.

- Go to developer meetups hosted by companies/individuals in the camp. This community maybe small in Philly, but I'm certain it exists. This will reinforce both the learning and networking parts of above.

- Go to events in New York City, which is the closest tech hub available to you. There are events held all the time - hackathons, conferences, etc. Go, learn, make friends, network.

- After you've done this a few times you've probably collected at least a few cards from interesting companies. Hit them up, see if they're hiring, or if they know anyone hiring. Considering the severe, ridiculous high-end tech shortage in NYC, you will get substantial hits.

- Consider also traveling to NYC and crashing an AirBnb for a few days/week. Companies are a lot more receptive if you can talk to them face to face. If you can line up a few interviews beforehand, even better.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#240

Post by nollidge »

Falling3 wrote: post #187
niggler wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you're trying to set up some kind of artificial situation where you want people to solve a problem without access to readily available information." Would you hire someone who has to google for an answer to fizzbuzz?

>Would you hire someone who has to google for an answer to fizzbuzz? No, but there's very little utility in someone solving fizz buzz with or without google. Give them a real test and let them use google.

I think there's utility in weeding out posers. That's why fizzbuzz is even talked about in the first place.

But I think there should also be a real test, with Internet access available.

Post reply on HN