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There are Ladies Present

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Re: There are Ladies Present

#41

Post by btilly »

illuminate wrote: post #30
iamtherockstar wrote: post #3

I agree with this, fully and unequivocally. I have to wonder if "there are ladies present" might also be construed as sexist. Maybe we just shouldn't use toilet humor in situations where we're not absolutely sure everyone will find it appropriate. Warning: offensive, but to demonstrate a point... I once interviewed a guy who decided to wear a t-shirt to the interview that read "Thousands of my potential children died…

Serious question, and I don't mean this disrespectfully to you, but why did you not turn him away immediately and proceed to waste everyone's time?

I personally have been taught that even if someone instantly bombs the interview, you have to make them feel like they were given a decent shot so that they won't get upset and try to sue you.

Sadly you can't even give feedback on what people did wrong because anything that you say can and sometimes will be held against you in a court of law.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#42

Post by azov »

nilkn wrote: post #38
azov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand your logic. What is it about being a minority that makes one sensitive to dick jokes?

I think he's saying that being a minority and feeling like a minority makes you sensitive to basically everything. Dick jokes just happen to get included in that. Not sure I agree, but that is how I interpreted his post anyway.

There are many other minority groups who seem to be perfectly ok with locker room humor.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#43

Post by pandaman »

logjam wrote: post #27
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

No. Ellen Degeneres or The Voice or any of the other false equivalences you're desperately reaching to make is not the professional technical workplace. If you run in any of my technical circles, put on a technical presentation, or otherwise represent at a technical conference, and you make "jokes" that are sexual innuendos of any kind or are otherwise unprofessional.... You will be gone. Gone. Count on it. The tech…

Contrary to the popular belief white-knighting never got anybody laid. Count on it.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#44

Post by tptacek »

newnewnew wrote: post #23
antihero wrote: post #12

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck. Women are humans. Some of us (humans) find toilet humour funny and a great way to escape situations, some of us dislike it and find it unprofessional, some of us just don't give a fuck. Just talk like you talk, be aware of alienating people you care about, fuck those you don't, and do cool shit. I like toilet humour. It is silly and fun and stupid. It is ironic and whatever fucking p…

Men, and especially white and Asian men, are afraid and confused because other people have this powerful weapon they can use against them called "getting offended". The rules for how it works are fuzzy and not printed anywhere and anyways they vary from place to place. So men, and especially highly logical men, are scared, curious, and very motivated to try to figure out the rules. In recent cases of sexual harassmen…

This is what an /r/MensRights commenter looks like, right? The weird, totally irrelevant racial tinge the comment has is a signal too, right?

Re: There are Ladies Present

#45

Post by ciupicri »

pandaman wrote: post #43
logjam wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Ellen Degeneres or The Voice or any of the other false equivalences you're desperately reaching to make is not the professional technical workplace. If you run in any of my technical circles, put on a technical presentation, or otherwise represent at a technical conference, and you make "jokes" that are sexual innuendos of any kind or are otherwise unprofessional.... You will be gone. Gone. Count on it. The tech…

Contrary to the popular belief white-knighting never got anybody laid. Count on it.

I was about to say something similar. I know at least one female friend who thinks this way for sure.

I'm also wondering if this white knight thing isn't making women feel powerless since they need to be helped as if they can't do it themselves.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#46

Post by pjscott »

logjam wrote: post #27
dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

No. Ellen Degeneres or The Voice or any of the other false equivalences you're desperately reaching to make is not the professional technical workplace. If you run in any of my technical circles, put on a technical presentation, or otherwise represent at a technical conference, and you make "jokes" that are sexual innuendos of any kind or are otherwise unprofessional.... You will be gone. Gone. Count on it. The tech…

How confident are you in this prediction? You sound very confident -- "Count on it." -- but hoping that something will happen and being certain that it will actually happen are two different things.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#47

Post by broc »

I didn't like the premise of the article because it made out women to be some kind of foreign entity in the industry, in the author's words, "our industry".

> I do not want the women in our industry to feel unwelcome.

I know it's completely good-natured, but these kind of statements make it seem like males single-handedly have the power to make women feel unwelcome or welcome... which causes a divide even further. The phrase "there are ladies present" is just strange to me, like males should be hyper-aware of the foreign entity that is present. Gives the same effect as "there are elephants present" in the room. No matter - we should be aware that /people/ are present and dick jokes, etc. have no place in a professional setting.

I do agree that the locker talk happens. On numerous occasions, the males around me have talked about seeing breasts and other (straight) male oriented topics.

Re: There are Ladies Present

#48

Post by scarmig »

dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

'We've (and I mean "White Men") made it a point to relabel and rename everything to be non-offensive.'

Aw. How cute and generous of y'all!

Re: There are Ladies Present

#49

Post by zem »

illuminate wrote: post #32
zem wrote: post #4

i disagree. he seems to be saying that the industry needs women because of the new and different, "grown-up, nurturing, ..." perspective they can bring to the table. i think the industry needs women because, well, when you arbitrarily exclude half the human race from contributing, you are unquestionably losing something of significant value. the thing is this: women have already gotten a raw deal by being socialised…

"women have already gotten a raw deal by being socialised to find sex uncomfortable" The counter to this is that they should be made more comfortable by not ~forcing~ them to pretend to be comfortable with awkward conversations in professional situations. Some things aren't as progressive as you imagine.

How is that a counter? It follows directly!

Re: There are Ladies Present

#50

Post by rmrfrmrf »

dizzystar wrote: post #19

I went to school for a female-dominated profession (yes, there are quite a few out there where the balance goes the other way). I can assure you that if you find the things men say offensive, you haven't heard anything... I want to add the caveat that I am NOT attempting to appeal to hypocrisy. While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how ca…

> While I agree that there is a limit, I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive and I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive.

To be frank, you don't see these things as offensive because you're ignorant. I grew up in the same era as you did, and I'm guessing you just had the misfortune of not being asked to walk in another person's shoes. You go ahead and enjoy all that delicious privilege.

> I don't see how calling languages "estrogen" is offensive

When I first read this in the article, I cringed. Then, when he further tried to 'explain himself' with, "I was mostly making a joke about how seriously C++ programmers take themselves compared to Java programmers," I cringed even harder. IT'S OFFENSIVE TO SAY THAT ONLY MEN TAKE THEMSELVES SERIOUSLY IN PROGRAMMING. It boils down to men = serious and women = emotional, flippant, hysterical, etc. It's a horrible horrible analogy and quite frankly I'm surprised that didn't blow up in his face even more than it did.

> I don't understand how calling a hat "cute" is offensive.

Again, ignorance. Would you tell a male admiral that his hat was "cute"? This is a classic case of infantilizing women, which makes it seem like Grace Hopper's brilliant, groundbreaking work was just another finger painting that can be tacked onto the refrigerator. "Aww, look at what the cute little girly did! Go run along now and put away your EasyBake Oven."

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