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Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

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Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#121
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Again, context matters. When a man makes a sexual joke and a woman makes a sexual joke, it's not the same thing because there are different implications to it. My brain cannot even comprehend how you can believe such bullshit. I feel like am living in some kind of satirical novel when these incidents happen and people defend it with these type of statements.

Imagine it's night, and you're a woman alone at a bus stop, in an empty street. Two men arrive, also waiting for the bus. While they're waiting, they start making sexual jokes. Now imagine you're a man in the same situation, and two women arrive. They start making sexual jokes. Can you see the difference? Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was…

>Can you see the difference?

No, I can't because every man is not a rapist. Your scenario assumes that the men are malevolent and the women benevolent. If you remove this prejudice, you will see the scene as I do. The same thing.

>Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was the one telling the joke.

The comparison is flawed in three ways. Firstly, every boss can potentially fire an employee but every man is not a rapist. If two known rapists came and sat next to me at a bus stop and started making sexual jokes, I would feel scared even as a man.

Secondly, sexual jokes describe any joke that is related to something sexual. A joke where someone is getting fired is very specific and has a victim. You cannot compare the two (unless you are imagining a small subset of sexual jokes that have a victim but this is not what we are talking about).

Thirdly, In your bus stop scene the two men are engaged in private conversation. In your office scene, the boss is telling the joke directly to the employee.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#122
#1 - This woman obviously has gender issues - her domain name says it all (butyoureagirl.com - really?)



#2 - The joke was completely childish and innocuous at best. No, that isn't subjective, it was!.  You can't proclaim yourself a geek and tell me you've never heard a dongle joke.  Amy Poller made a similar joke during a recent superbowl commercial. I'd be hard-pressed to see her outting her as offensive to all women.



#3 - No, she didn't "save programming" from anything. Programming was never under any threat whatsoever.  This were two fellow developers making a silly joke that she completely blew out of proportion.  This is nothing but a self righteous individual with illusions of grandeur.  What she did was get people fired.

#4 - This was never about anything else but herself.  And in the end, we are all feeding a troll

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#123
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was the extremely public nature of the channel. It wasn't speaking softly to the usher that someone was being inappropriate and unprofessional, it was shouting into a megaphone that someone was being inappropriate and unprofessional. It's the "megaphone" part that I think is out-of-scale. If we're going to be a civilized community, then gentle, discreet correction should be the societal norm.

I don't think she had any obligation to raise the issue quietly. Making things public works. Unless people start calling out this kind of behaviour in a public manner, there will be no pressure for anyone to change anything. I think this is just a variant of a tone argument basically.

> Making things public works.

How does this episode not serve as a pretty glaring counterexample to that principle?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#124
post #18

I hate the idea that she's getting death threats and insults because of her gender. That's wrong. It's not because of her gender. It's because she's a notable figure on the internet. I challenge the reader to find any notable figure online who has held a controversial position and not been the target of death threats. That is an Internet anonymity problem, not a gender problem! Women are not the only targets of anony…

I agree that this is an Internet wide problem. And yet, I suspect it is worse for women.

This abuse is generated by the "long crazy tail" of the Internet populace. In general, this crazy tail is mostly male (testosterone/societal/genetic influences). Therefore, the crazies are more likely to sympathetic to people like them and less likely to be able to relate to those far outside their own identities (among this set, women), and so the abuse level will be higher.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#125
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine it's night, and you're a woman alone at a bus stop, in an empty street. Two men arrive, also waiting for the bus. While they're waiting, they start making sexual jokes. Now imagine you're a man in the same situation, and two women arrive. They start making sexual jokes. Can you see the difference? Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was…

> Can you see the difference? No, I can't because every man is not a rapist. Your scenario assumes that the men are malevolent and the women benevolent. If you remove this prejudice, you will see the scene as I do. The same thing. > Just like you can tell your boss a joke where someone's getting fired, but you could feel uncomfortable if he was the one telling the joke. The comparison is flawed in three ways. Firstly…

Ok, you can't see the difference then. Fair enough.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#126
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you will cast your lot in with the dudes threatening rape and death?

He's not casting his lot in with those dudes. The guy who he is responding to, is. Which is a gross injustice.

You are either lying or stupid, and I can't tell which. edit: To those who would downvote me LOOK AT THE POST he is referring to. What is your problem with actually reading things?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. The point is we shouldn't brush off these individual incidents as insignificant because they are part of a whole. The problem is not going to get solved if you don't show that you do not tolerate this sort of behaviour, on an individual scale.

> That's not the point. It's clearly not your point. But I think its an important point. > The point is we shouldn't brush off these individual incidents as insignificant because they are part of a whole. If the significance is because they are part of a whole , then they need to be addressed in that context. > The problem is not going to get solved if you don't show that you do not tolerate this sort of behaviour, o…

>If the significance is because they are part of a whole, then they need to be addressed in that context.

How are you ever going to get any accountability if you don't address them individually. People need to be taught what a microaggression is and why it's important, and then punished if they continue to make them. Repeated sexual jokes are already considered a form of sexual harassment.

>The argument that something shouldn't be tolerated, even when accepted, doesn't automatically justify every possible response.

This is true, and we seem to disagree what a justified response is in this scenario. I don't think it was that big of a deal actually. The internet made it into a big deal, but that's not adrias fault. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't know where to go from this.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#128
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think she had any obligation to raise the issue quietly. Making things public works. Unless people start calling out this kind of behaviour in a public manner, there will be no pressure for anyone to change anything. I think this is just a variant of a tone argument basically.

> Making things public works. How does this episode not serve as a pretty glaring counterexample to that principle?

hindsight is 20/20, eh?

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#129
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society treats people differently depending on who they are. Men have certain privileges not afforded to women. If examining situations in a social context, this cannot be ignored. There is a reason this conference was BOASTING about having 20% women attending. We cannot treat everyone as if they are the same if the playing field is not level. In a vacuum, there should be no difference. But we do not live in a vacuum…

Yes, treating people differently will almost certainly result in people being treated the same. Not really though, it has never worked and will never work probably because it is illogical. This is part of the reason why so called "male privilege" is actually bullshit. There are so many double standards and exceptions negatively effecting males that they are actually at a disadvantage in a rapidly increasing number of…

hahaha ok

I suppose you are against affirmative action too.

Re: Adria Richards: ‘I’m staying safe’

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making things public works. How does this episode not serve as a pretty glaring counterexample to that principle?

hindsight is 20/20, eh?

I wouldn't have thought that tweeting someone's picture was a sound method of conflict resolution BEFORE the brouhaha, no hindsight required...

although conflict resolution probably wasn't what was really being attempted. I'm not sure what was being attempted, but I'd venture to guess that "let the internet settle this" didn't have the intended result.

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