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How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

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Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#151
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your 'Zap' is bothering me. What happened to Baz?

What comes after baz? I've seen some use quux but having 4 letters bothers me

I tend to go Foo, Bar, Baz, Fizz, Buzz, Bing.

If I need more than that, then I should probably simplify what I'm writing, or use more descriptive names.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#152
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this kind of demand for a prepared 5-minute self-pitch really tests how much you are confident and good at bullshitting, and not really anything about your skill with anything. A person is not worthless and incapable just because they aren't huge salesmen. No wonder women have trouble getting into this industry and getting ahead, with this kind of macho superior attitude from interviewers

> No wonder women have trouble getting into this industry and getting ahead, with this kind of macho superior attitude from interviewers Calm down, no on one is having any kind of "macho superior attitude" :) All I said was many interviewers start the interview this way so the interviewee has a softball question that they can use to clam themselves and make a point of anything they want the interviewer to know. And I…

If you don't know why you are interviewing someone, why are you interviewing them?

Test coders on how to code, not on how to sell.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#153
post #23

How to hire me: 1. Tell me about the 3 biggest things you must accomplish. 2. Tell me why you must accomplish them. 3. Tell me when you must accomplish them by. 4. Tell me how you intend to accomplish them. 5. Tell me what you're already doing to accomplish them. 6. Tell me the role you envision me playing in accomplishing them. 7. Tell me what you expect from me. 8. Put me with some of the key people already working…

A good Chinese buffet. If you can't tell, or don't want to pay for, the difference, well... P.S. (The secret is that good and cost are not in direct correspondence across the population of Chinese buffets.)

Sometimes you don't find out it's not good until several hours later when you are having a close encounter with a plumbing fixture.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#154

When I'm involved in interviewing someone, one of the interviews will be cookie-cutter. I've seen with my own eyes applicants who had stellar resumes, had great conversations with everyone they talked to... and could not pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview. You may think that it's insulting to have to pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, but we are not (generally) a Professional group - we don't have a Bar…

> If you code C++, do you know Boost? Do I know it exists? Sure, of course. Have I used all of the 50+ libraries in Boost? nope. Maybe about 10% of them. What exactly do you mean by "know Boost"? > "Let Me Code, Damnit" doesn't help me assess that as well as something that looks - at first blush - like a Cooke-Cutter Technical Interview does. You can also have a look at my GitHub where you can read actual code I have…

> Sure, of course.

I get applicants who claim they're C++ experts, and they've never cracked Boost open to look for anything good, and they've never heard of TR1 or anything that followed. I'd like to have that discussion with a candidate. That's all I meant by "know Boost."

> You can also have a look at my GitHub

When I can do that, it's awesome.

Many candidates have been work-for-hire their entire careers, in states with Non-Competes that are either enforceable or people are afraid their previous / current employer might try to enforce it. I don't hold a lack of a GitHub account against someone.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#155

When I'm involved in interviewing someone, one of the interviews will be cookie-cutter. I've seen with my own eyes applicants who had stellar resumes, had great conversations with everyone they talked to... and could not pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview. You may think that it's insulting to have to pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, but we are not (generally) a Professional group - we don't have a Bar…

I think "cookie-cutter technical interview" has been misunderstood. My fault, I didn't spend much time on it in the post. A cookie-cutter interview will ask things that I've been asked by every other shop in town. For instance, I literally recite Fibonacci now. It's a completely useless test because it's over-used. This sort of thing makes a company look cold and - far worse - unimaginative. It's not insulting, it's…

Thanks for the response.

I actually printed out about 20 sample bits of code, and discussed that. I worked with people on the Image Processing / Computational Geometry side who would set up a programming challenge with a compiler, and I respect that, too.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#156
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purposely didn't include any of yours. Why? 1. Mine are issues and yours are details. If my 10 are satisfactory, I can live with your 9, even though some may not be satisfactory. But if you 9 are good and my 10 aren't, I'd last about a year before moving on because of lack of meaning. 2. Mine are about them, yours are about you. 3. Mine show interest in the big picture; yours could easily paint you as a demanding n…

That's kind of interesting to me, because my questions are exactly like mindcrimes and I would never ask the kinds of questions you're interested in. I sometimes say in interviews that I'm actually not that interested in the big picture of the company, I'm much more concerned with the day-to-day issues of software construction. Also, you seem to have a specific kind of company in mind. Your questions fit a new web st…

"Lots of places are just looking for smart developers because there's lots of things to do rather than looking for somebody to fulfill a specific task."

That. If you are that company, I don't want to work for you.

You have to have a mission. The big hairy audacious goals guide your week to week work. If they don't then "You're doing it wrong".

If you don't know what I should be working on, then I am unlikely to be able to move you forward in a meaningful way. Sure, Google as a whole may not have a "thing" for me to work on, but each department will have it's key thing... again, if they don't, what the are they adding to google? Is my job secure? Or will I get axed in the next product that doesn't serve to organise the worlds information?

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#157

When I'm involved in interviewing someone, one of the interviews will be cookie-cutter. I've seen with my own eyes applicants who had stellar resumes, had great conversations with everyone they talked to... and could not pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview. You may think that it's insulting to have to pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, but we are not (generally) a Professional group - we don't have a Bar…

> Do you know why this line of C++ code compiles with Visual Studio 6, but produces the wrong result? Are you actually serious? You ask about a quirk in a 15-year-old single-platform compiler? I always wonder what some interviewers think they're gaining from questions about minute historical trivia like this. It doesn't provide any real insight into ability at all.

At the time I was working with code that had been written with Visual Studio 6. The code snippet was written at that time, and I thought it was interesting because of how it behaved, and it let me delve into how the person reasoned about the language, the compiler, and the runtime.

I repeat my earlier declaration that I loved candidates who didn't know the answer, but could have a good conversation about the question.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#158
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm vaguely aware that JS does ASI, but rather than waste brain space trying to understand it, I just use semicolons with everything. And anyway, what better test of language facility is there than having the person code something? Or looking at code they've written? Whiteboarding is a weird, artificial environment that's not going to represent the coder's natural behavior in the wild.

Putting someone in front of a computer gives them the freedom to google (true story: I used to do a paper exam, and then I found one person was googling when I was in the bathroom and left the guy unattended for a few minutes). "Whiteboarding is a weird, artificial environment that's not going to represent the coder's natural behavior in the wild." You don't use a whiteboard when you code? I love them. The whiteboard…

> Putting someone in front of a computer gives them the freedom to google

And what's wrong with that? I use google several times/day to help out with programming problems. This is 2013; if your company doesn't have access to the internet (and thus Google) then people aren't going to want to work for you anyway. The problem is you're trying to set up some kind of artificial situation where you want people to solve a problem without access to readily available information.

Sure, you could have them sit down at a computer that you've unplugged from the network and have them solve your problem, but why bother?

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you know why this line of C++ code compiles with Visual Studio 6, but produces the wrong result? Are you actually serious? You ask about a quirk in a 15-year-old single-platform compiler? I always wonder what some interviewers think they're gaining from questions about minute historical trivia like this. It doesn't provide any real insight into ability at all.

I thought that was meant to be a joke. At least I hope it was. It would get a good laugh from me in an interview.

And that would be good, too. I like to laugh with my co-workers. Especially the ones who have to maintain code that was originally written in Visual Studio 6, but somehow has survived to today. Because if you end up with a job like that, where you occasionally have to maintain something that long-lived, you'd better have a sense of humor to carry you through to the times that you get to innovate like crazy and make something nobody had ever thought of before. May we all get to work at jobs that have a healthy and responsible mix of those two activities.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#160
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting someone in front of a computer gives them the freedom to google (true story: I used to do a paper exam, and then I found one person was googling when I was in the bathroom and left the guy unattended for a few minutes). "Whiteboarding is a weird, artificial environment that's not going to represent the coder's natural behavior in the wild." You don't use a whiteboard when you code? I love them. The whiteboard…

> Putting someone in front of a computer gives them the freedom to google And what's wrong with that? I use google several times/day to help out with programming problems. This is 2013; if your company doesn't have access to the internet (and thus Google) then people aren't going to want to work for you anyway. The problem is you're trying to set up some kind of artificial situation where you want people to solve a p…

"you're trying to set up some kind of artificial situation where you want people to solve a problem without access to readily available information."

Would you hire someone who has to google for an answer to fizzbuzz?

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