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How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

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Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#71
This is a great post.

One issue here is that a (possibly deeply-layered) "neural network" model applies to many industrial processes, which means that there are a lot of interacting components, but in many of those the input/output relationship is almost binary-- a logistic curve close to a step function. Most companies have absolutely no need for exceptional people. They're looking for a process that can hire good-enough people at controllable volume. They have a mission to be fulfilled and want it done well enough. There's nothing wrong with that; it's just that most of them have no idea how to execute. They might over-hire and reject mediocre-but-good-enough people. They might come up with insane purple squirrel queries or HR-ish hiring policies ("we only hire NoSQL developers; it says here that you use Scala"). They might hire mediocrities (when they actually need strong people) and compensate by hiring a lot of them, which we know doesn't work.

There's also a deep, bilateral trust sparsity in the economy. Most employers aren't doing interesting work and have shit cultures. Most programmers haven't been well-trained or motivated to grow and are incompetent. It goes both ways. I'm just as elitist and network-driven in terms of the companies I'm willing to consider credibile as they are in their willingness to fairly evaluate candidates.

I can't come up with a good way to overcome this in the general case, but the OP gives a strong guide for recruiters to overcome trust sparsity and show capable developers (who can be selective) that they're not actually clueless.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#72
post #67

When I'm involved in interviewing someone, one of the interviews will be cookie-cutter. I've seen with my own eyes applicants who had stellar resumes, had great conversations with everyone they talked to... and could not pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview. You may think that it's insulting to have to pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, but we are not (generally) a Professional group - we don't have a Bar…

You're right, it's a buyer's market. And this kind of thing shows it. But for some reason we keep hearing that there is a massive talent shortage. Hmm...

Both things can be true at the same time.

Someone fresh out of school should expect to jump through hoops.

A company that's looking for senior developers who've Been There, Done That, should expect to have to empower, reward, and listen to them.

But senior developers really need to understand that there are Chameleons among them, who have floated from job to job, look like they have all the right skills, but can't perform.

Companies need to be able to distinguish those Chameleons from the real deal, and I have found that Cookie-Cutter Technical Interviews are a necessary step. I think I've kept out more Chameleons than I've lost good candidates. Or rather, I've determined that it's worth administering the Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, because I've concluded that the cost of hiring a Chameleon is higher than the cost of making one of the many honestly good candidates walk away in distaste.

I also have to emphasize how empowered, rewarded, and listened-to the candidate will be, and that they'll be surrounded by other senior programmers with great skills that they'll have fun interacting with...

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(The following is made up and CERTAINLY isn't for the job I currently have open for a senior PHP dev in Melbourne.AU) Here's why you don't see question one answered honestly: A. Our sales guys sold our product based on feature "Foo" a year ago. We haven't started coding but they need a demo next week. You have to grok our codebase and write it on your first day. B. The 'Bar' feature was written by a guy who should ha…

Your 'Zap' is bothering me. What happened to Baz?

[deleted]

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#74
"Be Interesting"

As a corollary to this, I would advise companies to be OK with not being interesting. Not every business is exotic and innovative. If you aren't actually interesting, don't try to portray the company so.

"Rockstars, etc...."

This has been hashed over so many times, especially here on HN, but I do want to point out that there is a YC company (that has been trying to hire for A LONG TIME, here and on SF Craigslist) who uses this kind of lingo. In fact, they were the YC company that implied to me that the YC partners don't actually try to control their companies too much. This company will be allowed to create their own business (or not) via their own philosophy, which is a point in YC's favor.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#75

When I'm involved in interviewing someone, one of the interviews will be cookie-cutter. I've seen with my own eyes applicants who had stellar resumes, had great conversations with everyone they talked to... and could not pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview. You may think that it's insulting to have to pass a Cookie-Cutter Technical Interview, but we are not (generally) a Professional group - we don't have a Bar…

> but it's a Buyer's Market On what planet?

You think it's hard to find programmers, at any given level of skill?

Maybe I've been fortunate enough to work for companies that had enough gravitational pull that we attract good candidates without trying very hard.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#76
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(The following is made up and CERTAINLY isn't for the job I currently have open for a senior PHP dev in Melbourne.AU) Here's why you don't see question one answered honestly: A. Our sales guys sold our product based on feature "Foo" a year ago. We haven't started coding but they need a demo next week. You have to grok our codebase and write it on your first day. B. The 'Bar' feature was written by a guy who should ha…

Your 'Zap' is bothering me. What happened to Baz?

It got reversed, then b spent too much time looking at a mirror pond.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#77

Also stop with: interviewing based on rote memorization. Yesterday I had a really crappy (third-party!) phone screen assessing my ASP.NET and some general web dev knowledge. Questions included asking me what the stages are in the ASP.NET page life cycle, how to create Web Control in ASP.NET, what elements are new in HTML5, and how to pop up a new window in Javascript. None of which I know off the top of my head (exce…

I recently got the question, "explains what happens when you type a URL into a browser."

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#78
post #29

What am I supposed to do instead of the cookie-cutter technical interview? Right now I do "Ask any question that starts with the phrase “tell me about a time when”." for most of the interview. I'm trying to give them an opportunity to describe technical things they've done so I can drill into details and suss out if they're exaggerating their skill-set and/or incapable of communication. For perspective, I'm a schlub…

Completely agree with you - I frequently used to ask experienced candidates questions of the form, "tell me about one very difficult bug or performance issue encountered during your two years working on X."

Unfortunately, the number of flat-out liars on resumes is extremely large. Heck, I've even seen resumes from people I worked alongside at Microsoft who now claim to have done things that I did while there.

Sussing that out is part of the interviewer's job, at least if you care about 1) whether you're hiring a liar 2) the skills that should have been gained if they actually spent two years working on X.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#79
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yesterday I had an interview that started off with "Tell me a bit about yourself." To be fair, alot of well meaning interviewers start off that way. It's supposed to be a chance for you to mention all the good things that we may not ask about. In fact that question is so common its a good weeder question; if a person can't blow your socks off with 5 minutes then you can probably predict how the rest of the intervie…

Except this kind of demand for a prepared 5-minute self-pitch really tests how much you are confident and good at bullshitting, and not really anything about your skill with anything. A person is not worthless and incapable just because they aren't huge salesmen. No wonder women have trouble getting into this industry and getting ahead, with this kind of macho superior attitude from interviewers

> No wonder women have trouble getting into this industry and getting ahead, with this kind of macho superior attitude from interviewers

Calm down, no on one is having any kind of "macho superior attitude" :)

All I said was many interviewers start the interview this way so the interviewee has a softball question that they can use to clam themselves and make a point of anything they want the interviewer to know.

And I stand behind what I said, where if a person has a question perfectly teed up for them and they can't tell you why they should be hired then they probably won't do well with any kind of technical interview.

Re: How To Hire Me (or any other programmer)

#80
post #23

How to hire me: 1. Tell me about the 3 biggest things you must accomplish. 2. Tell me why you must accomplish them. 3. Tell me when you must accomplish them by. 4. Tell me how you intend to accomplish them. 5. Tell me what you're already doing to accomplish them. 6. Tell me the role you envision me playing in accomplishing them. 7. Tell me what you expect from me. 8. Put me with some of the key people already working…

That's some good stuff, but I'd add a couple:

1a. Show me the office I'll be working in. Any "open plan" or "2+ people per office" setup decreases your odds of hiring me by about 93%. Not to say I'll never take a job like that, but it really, really hurts your odds.

1b. Show me the rest of the building... are there common areas where people can hang out and collaborate away from their offices, preferably with natural sunlight to the area? Are there plenty of conference rooms, team rooms, or other areas for small group meetings? Do people have to fight to get a room for a meeting? Are rooms commonly "double booked" in whatever system tracks that? IS there a system for tracking room reservations? Is it Lotus Notes? If "yes" to the last question, I walk.

2. Show me the tools I'll have available to work with: Hardware, software, etc. If you're handing out ancient laptops with 1GB of RAM while expecting developers to use Springsource Tools Suite, I'm probably walking out on the spot. If you're using CVS for version control, I'm probably walking out. If you don't have a continuous integration server, I'm probably walking out.

3. Tell me about the training budget, if any. If there is no training budget, your odds just went way down.

4. Tell me about your software process. Here's where I am going to interview you. If you say "we are an Agile shop" you better be able to explain exactly what that means. Which Agile methodology do you use? Scrum? XP? Crystal? RUP? Your own made up psuedo-Agile process? Do you just use the "words" from Agile or Scrum without actually understanding them? If you use the terms "sprint" or "iteration", and "epic" and "story points" but clearly don't understand what they mean and how they should be used, I'm gone. Also, I'll want to know if the business side of the company understands and is onboard with the iterative approach with empirical feedback loops. Do execs prioritize stories for the backlog and then leave it be? Or are they randomly coming in, mid-iteration, and changing things around willy-nilly?

5. I'll want to know how many people I "report" to. If I have a "manager" telling me what to do, AND a "project manager" giving me conflicting instructions, AND random execs with an unclear relationship to the project coming along and tell me stuff, we aren't going to be together long, sorry.

6. Tell me more about the culture of the company... are people expected to be on-time for meetings? Do meetings always have agendas, and time limits? Does the company favor promoting from within? Do the execs have an "open door" policy? Are their performance reviews? How are they done? Do you make employees take any bogus "psychological profile tests"? Drug tests? Do managers go out to lunch with the "rank and file" and share a beer or two, or do managers go out in groups and pointedly avoid the riff-raff, and you'll get yelled at for having one drink with your lunch? Does the CEO interact with the "rank and file"? How? In short, convince me that this is a well run company, who respect their employees, value engagement and actually empower their people.

7. Is there any attempt to implement Kaizen or become a learning organization? Are there post-mortems for negative incidents? Do they use "Five Whys"? Are employees fired for one f%!# up, or is it more of a "support, coach and encourage" environment?

8. Are there bonuses? Profit sharing? Employee Stock Purchase programs? Stock options? What exists to align the goals of the employees with the goals of the firm as a whole, other than "I want to stay employed"?

9. Take me to eat Thai. A quality serving of Num Tok and a nice Mussuman Curry improve your odds considerably.

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