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Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

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Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#531

Post by derleth »

btilly wrote: post #513
jonhendry wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, however, the vast majority of rapes of women are by men, and the vast majority of rapes of men are by men. It's not like the issue of men being raped is predominantly due to women, whereas the issue of women being raped is predominantly due to men. I also wonder if all the 'alpha male' bullshit might actually be a detrimental influence on prison rape, since it so clearly reinforces and mimics the sort of hierar…

Yes, men perform the vast majority of the rapes. Also most sexual abuse. Nobody doubts that.

But not most relationship abuse. http://moxymag.com/2011/03/man-beater/

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#532

Post by derleth »

bobwaycott wrote: post #500
vacri wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is a 'men's movement', and like feminism, it has nutbar crazies that everyone sees and detractors use to paint the movement as a bunch of crazies. More abstractly, a "men's rights" movement would, I think, offer very little gain to humanity as a whole, and would threaten to destabilize and retard the advancement of human rights and greater gender and sexual equality in social relations. There are a numb…

This is a different perspective, much of which I completely agree with. Enhancing the recognition and appreciation of [non-colossal-assholish-douchbaggy] masculinity ought to be accepted and supported. Males showing emotion in public? Check. Seriously tackling and solving the sexual and physical assault that is endemic to the US prison system? Absolutely check+. The US prison system is systemically atrocious and I fi…

But when you heard men's rights you immediately assumed the reactionary label would apply. That is a problem.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#533

Post by mnicole »

chrisivens wrote: post #510
mnicole wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this i…

Seems this youtube clip here is totally inappropriate too then? See 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI

What?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#534

Post by female101 »

mr-hank wrote: post #148
fingerprinter wrote: post #146

I just happened on this thread, even if a day old. Un-fucking-believable. I'm disappointed nearly all around here. Disappointed in pycon for actually kicking them out. Very disappointed that some would say posting their picture was fine (hint: it was not). Utterly disappointed they lost their jobs over this. I still can't believe they lost their jobs over this. What a sad state of affairs the world is in when someone…

The PSF did not kick us out, they pulled us from the main convention and got our side of the story. I gave a statement, apologized and thanked them for upholding the cons integrity. They felt I was sincere and let us leave of our own accord. I was also the only one who was let go.

Sorry to hear about you losing your job, that was not cool. As a woman in tech who is also a mother and raising 2 daughters, I experience the boys club every day. I love all the men I work with, I think they are great. I don't think that they are aware of some of the things they do that are offensive to women and I try to give them feedback to help them understand. I want my daughters to go into their career of choice and be comfortable in that environment. Maybe something to reflect on as a father is how you can foster a future in tech that isn't all about the boys club, especially if one or more of your 3 kids is a girl.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#535

Post by yellowSchoolBus »

zshprompt wrote: post #19
_5gtv wrote: post #16

As a female attendee of Pycon this year I was overwhelmed by all the friendly people I met. Now maybe my sense of humor is juvenile or coarse but what was overheard is a joke I'd probably make myself. Keep in mind Pycon was attended by plenty of minors so making adult themed jokes in a crowded room was really not the smartest move. Regardless it clearly states in the Code of Conduct ( https://us.pycon.org/2012/codeof…

Thank you. I agree with you 75%. Just because you would make this joke does not mean that someone cannot find it offensive. Adria was offended, and good for her for speaking up.

If I may be so bold as to ask, in your opinion, are there any minimum requirements for being offended? That is to say, if apples offend me, and you're eating an apple, is it noble of me to speak up?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#536

Post by SallySinep »

adriarichards wrote: post #27
mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

Adria, can you please do us all a huge favor and provide for us the exact wording of both the "dongle" and "forking" remarks that were made?

All we have so far are assertions that these remarks were sexual in nature, but not evidence. I'm not saying I'd be surprised if one, or both of them were (knowing all too well the way men sometimes are, at these conferences).

But really, it shouldn't be too hard for you to just tell us exactly what you heard, along with any supporting context that you feel would help us understand your position.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#537

Post by AlSweigart »

mr-hank wrote: post #202
selenamarie wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for continuing to speak in this thread. As someone who has not spoken up when I felt objectified or uncomfortable in the context of sexual jokes at technical conferences, I am relieved by how you've handled this. I wouldn't say I feel suddenly comfortable with speaking out to someone directly, but let's say that I feel a bit more like if I did speak to someone directly, they might not attack me. It's an unfort…

Unfortunately in this case there were more downsides than could have been predicted. I personally helped recruit 2 young women over the course of the weekend who were looking for junior/intern positions. They both seemed very passionate about development and well qualified. Before I lost access to my corporate account I was able to get one of their resumes to my manager but I'm afraid the other might have gone down w…

Are you comfortable telling us why you were fired while Alex Reid was not? What were the circumstances? (The post on the PlayHaven blog mentions this, but does not go into any detail.)

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#538

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

miri wrote: post #326
incongruity wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(nit-pick) There's a difference between sexist and sexualized . FWIW, I'm not sure where I fall on all of this – but my hunch says there's a bunch to be unhappy about all around. Having said that, I'll throw this out: In my experience, men (I am one) tend to be more okay with a small amount of sexualization in conversation. Women tend not to be. (extreme generalization, but a real distinction, I believe). Say what yo…

I believe your observation is correct. I'll also throw out a possible reason for women being less okay with sexualisation in conversation: We're the target or object of sexualisation far more often than men are, and sometimes in quite threatening contexts. If you keep getting exposed to something in a negative context, you stop liking even fairly mild occurrences of it. (I'm sure a black person hearing even quite mil…

"I'll also throw out a possible reason for women being less okay with sexualisation in conversation: We're the target or object of sexualisation far more often than men are"

Okay, but how does this apply to a "dongle" joke? If the joke referred to female anatomy rather than male, would it have been more offensive or less (to someone in Adria's position)?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#539

Post by vacri »

skewp wrote: post #515
vacri wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it does. Be discreet and don't draw attention to yourself in doing so - it's not really something you want to do when you've got the floor - but if you're not comfortable, you're less focused.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure sticking my hand down my pants to adjust my junk is never appropriate in public. I mean, I've done it if I thought I could get away with it, but I'd be pretty mortified if anyone ever let on that they caught me.

When you read 'adjust my bra' above, did you interpret that as the woman reaching inside her bra cup to reseat her boob? I certainly didn't.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#540

Post by TY812 »

KuraFire wrote: post #379
TY812 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context, I'm a developer evangelist. Actually, no, you are not. You are - by definition - a terrorist, applying unlawful use of force or violence against people with the intention of intimidating or coercing groups of people and societies for ideological or political reasons. The fact that you do have supporters shows the sad state of affairs this world is in.

Wow, you give tech a bad name both by your massively offensive accusation, as well as your completely wrong use of the word "terrorist" thereby reducing its significance. The thing showing a sad state of affairs here is you.

I am following the definition given by many dictionaries (and, by the way, 28 Code of Federal Regulations Section 0.85).

Terrorists don't all wear beards and have TNT strapped around their waists while piloting hijacked planes, you know?

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