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Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

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Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#281

Post by ticking »

astazangasta wrote: post #250
savagedm wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am only a visitor from Reddit on this website and I will likely not post on here again, I felt compelled to make an account and reply to your post. You sir, win the internet award for 3-20-13 for your outstanding writing, cogent points, and social awareness. One does not often see this quality of writing and thoughts combined into a singular document on internet sites, and for making me think at the end "oh m…

As another visitor from Reddit, I apologize for this comment. While I agree with the original commenter that this case is overblown and shouldn't be called out as sexism, it flows from error and a reaction to a real problem. To suggest that we need a "men's rights movement" to counter this sort of error seems absurd. If this is the level of "hardship" that men are facing, they have little to complain about. Men shoul…

I find false accusations, which in this case even lead to the accused loosing their jobs a serious hardship. Consider our societies view of men that are nice to children, most immediately think "pedophile", instead of nice guy. Just because we have to fight for true freedom of women, doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for the same when it comes to men. We need more men in social jobs, and we need a mens right movement to foster this, just as we need more women in IT. The real thing we need though is a unified movement that fights against discrimination of any kind without a label of a particular gender, race, religion or ideology.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#282

Post by mnicole »

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold.

Please don't apologize.

As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this is not demeaning to women and her reaction has nothing to do with supporting the future of this industry and the women who partake in it. In fact I'd say just the opposite. Just a few weeks ago we had a similar conversation when Torvalds replied to a woman with the term circlejerk (in regards to the argument they were having) and a few people raised their pitchforks thinking it was offensive in the context of her gender. It has nothing to do with gender.

Taking the photo and posting it for her global audience was just too much. The appropriate course of action would have been to show the picture privately to staff and have them talk to the parties involved individually and maybe bring everyone together to talk about it after-the-fact. I can't even fathom losing my job over something that I know I have made jokes about in the past, jokes that may have a juvenile slant, but that I thought would be acceptable because I was in the company of people who could - if not appreciate them - at least understand what I meant by them, and especially understand that it wasn't sexual.

Some jokes are not okay in the presence of certain people or during certain times. This was not one of them, and again I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with because of it. Best wishes to you.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#284

Post by mkr-hn »

uchi wrote: post #259
mkr-hn wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...what? How much effort do you put in to finding everything sexist? Less effort than you put in to dragging out absurd strawpeople.

>strawpeople. Are even logical fallacies supposed to be politically correct now? That's hilarious. Googling strawpeople gets me a New Zealand band.

Language policing helps your argument a lot.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#285

Post by kumar303 »

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

It makes me sad that HN reinforces the fact that women have a hard time participating in s/tech conferences/tech forums/g

PyCon was 20% female this year which was a remarkable milestone. Along with this milestone came an amplification of why it was so hard for PyCon to reach that milestone.

This was not an isolated issue; Titus' post provides a good summary of the general harassment women faced at PyCon http://ivory.idyll.org/blog/pycon-2013-and-codes-of-conduct....

And, yeah, blame your employer for making a poor judgement call on this. If I were you I wouldn't want to work for a place that fires people over Internet drama anyway.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#286

Post by truthtacular »

bobwaycott wrote: post #206

Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964…

Hi. Savagedm came in here to sing your praises. I just wanted to let you know--before you graciously acknowledge his adulation--that he represents a large and fairly freaky population of misogynists on reddit who typically congregate in http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/, and who have an especially sharp hatred for feminists of any stripe (be they ever so humble).

The giveaway is > Women frequently engage in behaviour that, when mirrored in men, would be called out for sexist. One point I was discussing with the girl I currently am dating is that there needs to now be a "mens' [sic] rights movement" similar to what women have accomplished [...]

Don't be fooled. The Men's Rights subreddit is just thinly veiled misogyny, often with some white supremacy thrown in the mix. Just go browse the sub--don't take my word for it.

Some of your comments suggest you might fit in over there. Then again, maybe not.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#287

Post by mdavie46 »

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

i think that you HAVE TO go to your job and explain your situation, This was not a case of harrassment Adria, i dont know if you intended for this man to get fired. you need to make this right and get this mans job back. Because if you did, spiritually, your in so much trouble, and you wont be able to keep a job your self and become an outcast.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#288

Post by bartl »

mkr-hn wrote: post #238
uchi wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"an innocent remark can easily be taken the wrong way when it comes after the chain of sexism women deal with in any given day." ...what? How much effort do you put in to finding everything sexist? This ladybug mounting another ladybug outside my window? Sexually oppressive. The female ladybug should be capable of choosing which position is preferable for her. This pencil in my hand? It's long. Hence a phallic object…

> ...what? How much effort do you put in to finding everything sexist? Less effort than you put in to dragging out absurd strawpeople.

These are not strawpeople. These are sex jokes.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#289

Post by hilljgo »

selenamarie wrote: post #211

I hope people here realize how far some people will go when they feel they are given permission to harass others: https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/314417532842950656 This is just awful. And the people who are taking part in the harassment are responsible, not anyone else.

may I ask what started all this?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#290

Post by danielweber »

uptown wrote: post #283
danielweber wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think she has any legal responsibility here.

Defamation.

This will be a huge stretch of the law. It would be doubtful that one could succeed against her even under UK-type laws, to say nothing of American law.

Truth is a defense. Did they not do what she reported them as saying?

(NB: I'm not saying I approve of her behavior, but trying to paint her as legally responsible is out there.)

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