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SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

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Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#191

Post by josh-j »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #40
zopticity wrote: post #4

http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c

I don't understand what's wrong with this. This is quite literally the definition of racism in a sociological context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological . You're going to need to disprove a lot of social science before you tackle this definition.

That's all a bit silly. We have a common understanding or definition of what racism is and it connotes something immoral. _Some_ sociologists define racism as something else which also connotes something immoral. The common thread is that both definitions connote immorality, and so if something falls under either definition, it's still bad and so the whole arguing over which definition to use is moot.

For example, if an organized group of American Asians began touting their superiority over other races and advocated and lobbied for more Asians in positions of power because they're superior, wouldn't you still consider their actions to be immoral?

People can use whichever definition they like, but they need to be open about it, and they need to realize by using another definition they're not also redefining or constraining the connotation -- that's begging the question.

So, black people cannot be sociologically-racist-therefore-immoral against white people, but they can be common-usage-racist-therefore-immoral against white people.

(I should also note that labeling something with a word that connotes a negative or positive affect isn't much of an argument for the applicability of that connotation to that something. It's a heuristic more than it is an argument.)

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#192

Post by pan69 »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #40
zopticity wrote: post #4

http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c

I don't understand what's wrong with this. This is quite literally the definition of racism in a sociological context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological . You're going to need to disprove a lot of social science before you tackle this definition.

"Some sociologists have defined..."

I guess "some" is the keyword here.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#193

Post by mtoddh »

danilocampos wrote: post #46
blhack wrote: post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

> (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs). What, exactly, has she to apologize for? The people in question were speaking like they were in a frat house in direct contravention of a code of conduct they'd agreed to. They had the right to speak. And Adria had the right to tweet. If they didn't like being publicly outed for saying this stuff, guess what? All they had to do was shut their mouths. > What if I acciden…

If they didn't like being publicly outed for saying this stuff, guess what? All they had to do was shut their mouths.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm willing to bet that going forward more male developers will in fact be "shutting their mouths" when there's a female around.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#194

Post by adamnemecek »

knowtheory wrote: post #126
adamnemecek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I say that I would want that? Also, there was a certain point at which, had she apologized and said something along the lines of "I'm really sorry about the fact that I escalated the whole situation more than was necessary. The thing is that the tech community as a whole still has a somewhat sexist vibe which I, as well as others, have been trying to eradicate. Unfortunately, innocent bystanders were caught in th…

Sure, i agree whole heartedly. That's on her. What's on us is all of the comments saying things like "you'd be crazy to ever hire her ." "SHE'LL never work in this industry again." Great. Really tolerant. (And don't get me wrong, i'm one of the folks pissed at the way she conducted herself, but i'm way more pissed off at the mob that's whipped up this incident into something it never should have been)

If I said, "If you let your toddler play in a tiger cage, you are crazy." would you ask me "Why do you want toddlers to get mauled by tigers"? Maybe I wouldn't want it to happen, but it would regardless of my desires. I was just stating a fact about what will happen, whether you or I agree with it or not.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#195

Post by niggler »

WalterSear wrote: post #176
niggler wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want Adria to apologize for actions that were outside of her control (like the guys getting fired). If anything, the overreaction by everyone involved merely proves that the issue of gender in the industry is still significant.

They want her to apologize for inappropriately publicly shaming them, and the actions that resulted from that.

" the actions that resulted from that."

The actions that resulted from that were the employers' fault. If she claimed they molested her (which is illegal and can result in jail time) when they didn't, then you have a point. But the comment they made was uncontested and the employer decided, for a multitude of reasons including the recent matter, to let the guy go.

What if the employer was ready to fire him already, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back? Is it her fault that he was on thin ice to begin with?

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#196

Post by tkahn6 »

onemorepassword wrote: post #49

In events like these I'm glad I'm living under protective labor laws and not in the US. That would have forced all parties involved to talk it out like grown-ups instead of resorting to terminating those involved. Now there is no kind of resolution, but two people are unemployed and two companies are damaged. Nice going.

http://www.eeoc.gov/

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#197

Post by devilshaircut »

salman89 wrote: post #51
blhack wrote: post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

"I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next?" I'm not agreeing with anything Adria did, but the issue of being labeled as the "tattletale" probably plays a big part in most women's reluctance to report real harassment.

I in fact agree with you and think you are 100% right but I think you are parsing the situation incorrectly. In fact it seems to be Ms. Richards who will cause women to be reluctant to report real sexual harassment.

Let me draw from a past experience of mine involving a female colleague who was sexually harassed. She related the situation to me and I had absolutely no doubt that what was said to her was inappropriate and needed to be reported to HR. I in fact encouraged her to bring the issue to HR. She told me she was highly reluctant to say anything because she was afraid it would affect the perception of her in the office.

This is a real and legitimate concern for women in the workplace today.

But the fact is, the person she, and women like her, do not want to be seen as is Ms. Richards. My female colleague had experienced a real threat in her workplace that was truly hostile. Ms. Richards demeans very real threats to gender equality in the workplace by using a penis joke told in a private conversation to deal real, public damage senselessly. I am greatly concerned for my female colleagues who are lumped into the same "team" as Ms. Richards, particularly in the inevitable case that they do experience truly awful sexual harassment or threat.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#198

Post by brador »

blindhippo wrote: post #136
canttestthis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DDOS attack on SendGrid's web and mail servers stopped about an hour and a half after they announced that they were firing Richards. Also the community backlash against Richards was huge, while there weren't many supporting her actions. From SendGrid's point of view, this was a good business decision.

No, it sure as hell was not a "good business decision". They got attacked by errant children expressing sad rage at something that while bad, was not deserving of retaliation against the company. So the result: the company ditches one of their employees for very dubious reasons. Basically they caved to internet bullying and validated every sexist moron on the internet. Well done Sendgrid. Well done.

Every hour let's say they're losing 1% of their customer base. What would you do?

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#200

Post by gaoshan »

She could have simply turned around and told them that she found what they were saying offensive and that would have been the end of it. Instead she choose to publicly humiliate and shame them, at the cost of one man's job, and that was going to far. Frankly, she acted like a bully.

When I saw some other post she'd made on Twitter where she joked about telling a guy to stuff a sock in his pants for TSA searches I really felt like she was the bad actor here... it made her seem more than a little hypocritical.

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