Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#31

Post by dos1 » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:16 PM UTC

This is somewhat meta, sorry.

What concerns me is that even in the face blistering internet rage, she dug in her heels and stood by her actions. Just apologize. Why is it so bloody hard for people these days to just admit they made a mistake? Being fired, harassed on twitter, etc etc could not possibly be better than writing "I'm really sorry I publicly outed those guys, I should not have done that, and will refrain from doing that in the future".

Here's another thread where I argue that an apology could have fixed things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5415524

Some of the responses were indignant, and people said she shouldn't have to apologize for her actions. I agree, she doesn't need to apologize. But look where it got her! This is indicative of a much broader trend I see. People today would rather lose a finger than say they're sorry. I just cannot understand it.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#32

Post by sjs382 » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:17 PM UTC

mwetzler wrote: post #21

afandian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain…

These attacks, presumably, aren't being made by anyone that's actually involved with the situation...

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#33

Post by afandian » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:23 PM UTC

mwetzler wrote: post #21

afandian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain…

Absolutely, the reaction would be terrifying for anyone. I assumed you were talking about her initial actions. I was.

There's been sensible debate and abuse. There may be an overlap, but they are distinct reactions. If you challenge someone, you invite them to challenge you back (I hope she's not terrified by disagreement). But abuse and threats are entirely separate, and seem to have come from people beyond the industry, e.g. anonymous. Lots of trolls on the net are just looking for a fight and gender politics fades into the background when you have a large number of people on a hair-trigger, willing to use any language at their disposal that they can make fit the target.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#34

Post by warmwaffles » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

arrrg wrote: post #27

warmwaffles wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the firing was purely a business decision for both companies. Harboring stuff like this can go down hill fast. It's easier to just let them go and not have to deal with it.

An immoral business decision, yes.

It can be, but it could also be an excuse to get rid of a problem employee. SendGrid could have been waiting for her to slip to let her go.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#35

Post by jkrems » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:44 PM UTC

dos1 wrote: post #31

This is somewhat meta, sorry. What concerns me is that even in the face blistering internet rage, she dug in her heels and stood by her actions. Just apologize. Why is it so bloody hard for people these days to just admit they made a mistake? Being fired, harassed on twitter, etc etc could not possibly be better than writing "I'm really sorry I publicly outed those guys, I should not have done that, and will refrain…

If I recall correctly she at least said she was sorry in that first HN thread where it was mentioned that one of the guys was fired. But she could have written that in an update on her blog post or in a new post.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#36

Post by jkrems » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 5:50 PM UTC

mattermill wrote: post #16

I like the part where she said "SendGrid supports me" - https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

Wonder if that's part of the reason she was fired. That's where her position becomes company policy and if that was not properly communicated...

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#37

Post by bradleyland » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

mhurron wrote: post #8

Equality is a good thing.

A couple of guys make some unfunny dick jokes at a conference that are overheard by a woman. Said woman is offended and decides the appropriate response is to take photos of them and out them publicly. The employer of one of the unfunny guys shitcans him, and the internet mob comes out in force.

A bunch of innocent bystanders are dragged in to the foray when the mob attacks the employer of the offended woman. The woman's employer wants nothing to do with any of the mess, so they fire her very publicly on the internet in an attempt at triage for their bleeding customer base.

Meanwhile, the conference organizers institute what could only be described as a "gag order" policy with regard to harassment issues.

Please -- oh please -- explain to me how one could possibly extract anything "good", with regard to equality or otherwise, from this situation?

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#38

Post by drucken » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 9:27 PM UTC

mwetzler wrote: post #21

afandian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain…

While I do not disagree with you about the offensive content of many of the attacks, what do you or Adria Richards expect to have happened after posting a public picture of her accused and calling out other people by name and company?

She chose public justice for all, including herself and anyone she represented in that context. That works both ways, regardless of gender.