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Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

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Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#21

Post by mwetzler »

afandian wrote: post #15
mwetzler wrote: post #11

A terrifying precedent for all women in tech.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain "butyouragirl".

Misogyny is kind of like porn: "you know it when you see it". There is a simply an undue level of hatred for Adria which is correlated to her gender, I think in large part because she is an outspoken feminist.

A lot of people in this community would very much like outspoken feminists not to exist (check the comments here or on Reddit anytime a post about women in tech goes up).

Another way to look at it: I can't imagine this chain of events would have gone down if a man pointed out a lewd joke at a conference.

The whole thing really smells like a feminist backlash.

I'm trying to be more outspoken about gender bias I encounter in the workplace, but incidents like this are a terrifying reminder of why that can be dangerous.

A few months ago I posted about an inappropriate comment someone made to me at a hackathon and got lots of advice (on this forum) to publicly out and shame the person. Seeing that my company could have come under attack for that is a reminder of why it's dangerous for women to speak out.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#22

Post by warmwaffles »

arrrg wrote: post #20
warmwaffles wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as that. There were better ways to handle the situation. She shouldn't have public shamed them without asking them to stop first.

Probably. Sadly, humans are not perfect. Making dumb jokes and posting a photo of those who made dumb jokes online? Dumb mistakes. Firing people, DDoS attacks, vile threats: Now that’s a shitty clusterfuck. The bullies have driven the conversation.

I think the firing was purely a business decision for both companies. Harboring stuff like this can go down hill fast. It's easier to just let them go and not have to deal with it.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#23

Post by [deleted] »

mwetzler wrote: post #21
afandian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain…

[deleted]

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#25

Post by mhurron »

arrrg wrote: post #17
mhurron wrote: post #8

Equality is a good thing.

This is not equality, it’s a clusterfuck. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In the end the bullies won.

No, it's equality. Now whether or not you agree that an off-colour joke should get you fired, it did and it can. It did so and it can because it can bring very negative attention on your employer.

Now, attempting a public shaming will also bring negative attention on your employer. That can get you fired.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#27

Post by arrrg »

warmwaffles wrote: post #22
arrrg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. Sadly, humans are not perfect. Making dumb jokes and posting a photo of those who made dumb jokes online? Dumb mistakes. Firing people, DDoS attacks, vile threats: Now that’s a shitty clusterfuck. The bullies have driven the conversation.

I think the firing was purely a business decision for both companies. Harboring stuff like this can go down hill fast. It's easier to just let them go and not have to deal with it.

An immoral business decision, yes.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#28

Post by arrrg »

mhurron wrote: post #25
arrrg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not equality, it’s a clusterfuck. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In the end the bullies won.

No, it's equality. Now whether or not you agree that an off-colour joke should get you fired, it did and it can. It did so and it can because it can bring very negative attention on your employer. Now, attempting a public shaming will also bring negative attention on your employer. That can get you fired.

If our assumptions about the firing are correct, the employers made in my mind immoral decisions, caused by bullies.

Re: Adria Richards fired by SendGrid for outting developers

#30

Post by vor_ »

mwetzler wrote: post #21
afandian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has this got to do with women? Anyone could have found those jokes offensive, whatever their gender. And no-one has the right to protection from being offended, whatever their gender.

Thanks for asking. The nature of the attacks against Adria are EXTREMELY misogynistic (rape threats, death threats, people calling her a c_nt, b_tch, wh_re, etc) and many people have taken up a "burn her at the stake" mentality. They've also pulled into question her professional credibility and called her an affirmative action hire. They are saying this kind of behavior should be expected from someone with the domain…

Men and women alike have been coming forward and questioning Adria's actions, especially since she made the same type of joke during the conference. She's become a PR nightmare for her employer because she used her media position to take matters into her own hands.

It needs to be understood that posting someone's picture on the internet with the intent of making an example out of them through public shaming, and without the accused having equal footing to present their side, has consequences, especially for an accusation as politically charged as sexism. Such an accusation can get someone fired.

One reason this has grabbed so much attention is that the remarks she overheard were not only rather benign and non-sexist, but they were also the kinds of comments both men and women make to their friends, including Adria, as she did on Twitter.

> Another way to look at it: I can't imagine this chain of events would have gone down if a man pointed out a lewd joke at a conference.

If you want to go down this route, a man complaining about a dongle joke probably would not have received the attention Adria's accusations received because she's a woman. That's simply because accusations made by women are taken more seriously due to them more often being on the receiving end of sexism. That's why it's so important to make sure the attention paid to gender inequality issues isn't wrongly exploited.

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