Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out • Hacker News Board

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#501

Post by zbuc » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 3:21 PM UTC

colabug wrote: post #28

ianschenck wrote: post #24

What just blows my mind, is that Adria keeps referring to this as an issue against females. The comment (as clarified by the terrible perpetrator elsewhere) was about a part of male physiology and not directed towards any person, male or female. She just keeps repeating how this is some sort of female issue. I frankly don't see the connection. I do see how some puritanical folks could be upset, because you know, sex…

Cards Against Humanity is irrelevant to the issue. Also it's not about being puritanical and easily offended. Being a male geek/dork/nerd/outcast in school doesn't excuse behavior that causes a hostile, sexualized, or otherwise unwelcoming environment. I, a female geek, was an outcast too and participated in many of the activities you mention, yet I came out mature. You claim that male engineers (which you referred t…

Can you please clarify how a "big dongle" joke is sexist? I honestly don't understand and I think many people don't and that's why they're saying it's not sexist.

You haven't really given any supporting evidence here -- you just said it created a "hostile, sexualized environment". How?

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#502

Post by tripleggg » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 3:28 PM UTC

adriarichards wrote: post #27

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hey, Thanks for speaking up, contributing your viewpoint on HN and not attacking me. I'm sorry to hear your employer deciding to not to work with you on this and I hope they reconsider, bring you back on and dealing with it constructively. For context, I'm a developer evangelist. That means I'm an advocate for developers, male and female. While I hear abou demanding bosses with impossible deadlines for product launch…

"I'm a developer evangelist"

This is code for professional bullshitter. We (the real developers) don't need any "evangelizing." Our work speaks for itself.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#503

Post by tripleggg » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 3:38 PM UTC

OMG I just read the comment from the real victim, the guy who got fired and he is apologizing!

DUDE what are you apologizing for? She should be apologizing (will never happen). Your employer should be apologizing as well. But YOU have done absolutely nothing wrong.

At the very least I hope your apology in insincere and you're only doing it to get another job, which is somewhat understandable.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#504

Post by bobwaycott » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 3:42 PM UTC

afraidofsexism wrote: post #432

bobwaycott wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, thanks for the compliment and kind words. I appreciate that. However, I must emphatically and proudly express that I do not support the negation and devaluing of women's (as well as ethnic, [other] cultural, LGBT, etc.) rights by way of reactionary countering with a "men's rights" movement. One of the most pressing reasons is that such a movement would likely result in a majority of white, heterosexual male adhe…

Whether or not Adria overreacted is irrelevant. If the problem is these guys got fired, then be mad at the company NOT someone who likely has to deal with sexist bullshit day in and day out in a male dominated and sexualized industry.Okay, so she overreacted, big deal, people overreact every day. On the other hand, look at the response - thousands of comments here and at reddit and on twitter posting her real life ad…

No sane person, including myself, who vehemently disagrees with Adria's actions is engaging in or supporting threatening Adria at all, calling her obscene names, etc.

Please do not lump us in with the 'extreme and vicious misogyny', for which I am not the only one who has zero tolerance of it and offers it no support at all.

Adria's overreaction and characterization of this event as sexism is very relevant. I understand that she may have 'to deal with sexist bullshit day in and day out in a male dominated' world, and I specifically go to bat for that. But this situation was not sexism, and it is relevant and important to make that clear.

Because a bunch of assholes are using this as a platform to spout misogynistic bullshit and threats does not mean others cannot or should not speak out.

And the fact that I spoke out, along with plenty of others, without being even obliquely misogynist means the response has not been '100% vicious and violent misogyny.'

I don't support that shit in any way, and I won't even hesitate to say that kind of reaction is fucked up. It is exactly why I am a philosophical Marxist who takes the subjugation of women to the material power of men very seriously.

Also, it's not for the conference organizers to say she was wrong. You don't deal with people being uncomfortable about a situation, as an organizer, by saying, "Hey, sorry, but that's not a big deal. Why don't you just go sit down and not worry about it?" You are obligated to deal with it, and the PyCon staff did exactly what they should have done.

The men's comments were inappropriate and wrong for the place and time. Adria's response was even more inappropriate and wrong for the situation.

Threatening Adria's person, calling her names, pillorying her with misogynistic hate speech is completely unacceptable and fucking wrong.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#505

Post by colinbm » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 3:56 PM UTC

KuraFire wrote: post #379

TY812 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context, I'm a developer evangelist. Actually, no, you are not. You are - by definition - a terrorist, applying unlawful use of force or violence against people with the intention of intimidating or coercing groups of people and societies for ideological or political reasons. The fact that you do have supporters shows the sad state of affairs this world is in.

Wow, you give tech a bad name both by your massively offensive accusation, as well as your completely wrong use of the word "terrorist" thereby reducing its significance. The thing showing a sad state of affairs here is you.

Considering how completely wrong use/interpretation of the words sexism/sexist, thereby reducing their significance, is what this is all about, it seems apt.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#506

Post by krzyk » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 4:05 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #224

omnibrain wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sue her, not his employer.

I don't think she has any legal responsibility here.

I thought that posting a photo without someone's consent is illegal (at least in EU not sure how it is in USA), but I'm not a lawyer. I always thought that was the case when Google removed faces from StreetView.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#507

Post by tripleggg » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 4:07 PM UTC

By the way, let's not forget that besides Adria Richards, there is another party to be shamed and boycotted: PlayHaven.

I am pretty good at what I do and I would never ever in a million years work for them or anyone like them. Good engineers are in demand and thus in a position of some influence.

Don't take the victim mindset. Your employer needs you at least as much as you need them. Boycott PlayHaven. They need to know there are consequences. It's the only way anything is going to change.

I saw a petition to re-hire the guy who got fired. Fuck that. I know I wouldn't want that job back.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#508

Post by tripleggg » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 4:14 PM UTC

tripleggg wrote: post #507

By the way, let's not forget that besides Adria Richards, there is another party to be shamed and boycotted: PlayHaven. I am pretty good at what I do and I would never ever in a million years work for them or anyone like them. Good engineers are in demand and thus in a position of some influence. Don't take the victim mindset. Your employer needs you at least as much as you need them. Boycott PlayHaven. They need to…

This goes for Adria Richards' employer SendGrid as well. Andria has publicly embarrassed you and put on the blacklist among many good engineers. I would never work for you or any other company that has position reserved for "developer evangelists."

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#509

Post by emereld » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 4:19 PM UTC

bobwaycott wrote: post #206

Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964…

I agree up to the point where you say 'Inappropriate? Sure, I'll grant Adria that.' It feels as if you're giving her argument an inch just so it isn't 100% opposed. A conciliatory prize.

Frankly it's not innappropriate. It's a nothing. A completely irrelevant non-sequitor that is neither against rules or genders.

Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out

#510

Post by chrisivens » Thu, Mar 21, 2013, 4:32 PM UTC

mnicole wrote: post #282

mr-hank wrote: post #23

Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes…

Hopefully you are still reading the comments here as I'm just catching up on all of this and watching how it is continuing to unfold. Please don't apologize. As other women before me already have, I want to apologize for this incident; honestly I probably would have been giggling myself if I was in an earshot of you. With respect to Adria's past and her sensitivity to the triggers she refers to, a comment like this i…

Seems this youtube clip here is totally inappropriate too then? See 1:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI