841–850 of 1001 posts
What kills me most is when people that make those mistakes don't try to makes things right back when it explodes. . . .
And BTW, since when a tweet from a random guy is enough of a proof to get someone else fired?
I am deeply saddened by what happened :S.
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as "a women in tech" (eeew) I also agree. It's like people don't know the difference between misogyny, which should be unacceptable, and bawdiness, which is a matter of taste. She must be really sheltered. But why did this person's employer fire them? I certainly wouldn't fire anyone for this reason and I would hire someone who made dick jokes for sure.
Really, firing the individual makes sense to me. Pycon does have a code of conduct, which includes avoiding sexualised language. I'm not into the whole big brother idea, but there is such a thing as "time and place" :) and the wrong time and place to make sexualised jokes, is when you are sat in public at a conference with a policy against such things... Reputationally, the company has a right to be both disappointed…
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Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…
She has thousands of followers. She is in a powerful position and she abused it. Just because she wasn't the employer doesn't mean her goal wasn't something along these lines. Why else would you post a clear picture of their faces up to a public lynch mob?
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> Women feel that a lot. No, no they really don't! Don't get me wrong, there are major gender issues within our society (not just the software industry). One of them is, this idea that ''all'' women are tender hearted souls who are ''constantly'' scared of any man that looks at them funny :) There is a broad difference between discomfort and fear. And whilst the latter is significant, the core problem is the former.
You should talk to more women about this. I'm not suggesting women are scared little rabbits, running all the time. I'm saying that they are at substantial risk of sexual assault and other predation (US lifetime chance of sexual assault: 1 in 6), and are frequently aware of situations where they might possibly be in danger. It's an entirely rational response. I'm trying to help Joeboy see why well-meant and innocent-…
Don't want to defend violence in relationships, but I think it is actually a different problem than men's tendency to rape (ie people are bad at choosing mates and conducting healthy relationships)
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> You should talk to more women about this. Here's a bit of free advice :) when you start to use this argument, consider that perhaps you've run out of good rhetoric. You seem a decent enough guy, if a little clueless, so I'll give you more advice if I may. Making lewd comments certainly might make others feel uncomfortable (male or female), but the fear factor comes from attitude and presence, not the words. For exa…
Hi, Tom. I have talked to actual women who tell me this. Why do you, as a guy, feel qualified to invalidate their experiences? I don't think Adira felt immediate fear for her physical safety, no. But I do think fear of sexual harassment and sexual violence are an important reason why it is very important that "harmless" sexualization of professional situations isn't harmless at all.
Adira was perfectly within her rights to complain to the conference organisers about rule breaking behaviour that was annoying her. The twitter shaming and blog post about harassment was a bit overboard though.
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If I understood correctly, Adria is not another employee, but has the role of developer evangelist. In that role, your twitter account is very much an extension of your job.
In that light, I do not understand how this woman is still employed. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Who exactly is she "evangelizing" for? All developers? I find that really hard to believe given her extremely public politics.
If somebody explains nicely why jokes or noise or cigarette smoke or whatever bothers them, you usually only have two decent choices:
1. Explain your side nicely. 2. Just give them what they want.
It's safe to say this incident never got that far. No doubt people who weren't anywhere nearby disagree as to which of the parties first got off the track. I generally lean to the side of the complainer, not the complainee, including in this case.
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So you're saying "private" is not in fact, well, "private". I grew up as a kid on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain, in Eastern Europe, where as it happens walls had ears and "private" was not in fact "private". To see this stuff repeating 25 years later in the free world is scary.
Yes, that's right. A privately run conference asking attendees to behave professionally around other attendees is exactly like the KGB, and is a sure sign that we are sliding downward into totalitarianism.
As a female tech co-founder I am disgusted by the actions of Adria at PyCon.
First and foremost, other than the irritation of chatting during a presentation I see nothing sexist about the comments made by the guys. Sexual innuendo != sexism
Secondly, if she had an issue she should have let them know. Posting their pictures to Twitter along side allegations of 'harassment' is orders of magnitude worse than anything they may or may not have done.
Adria, your actions were not in the interest of furthering women in tech. If anything these ostracise women further by making men feel uncomfortable about what is and isn't permissible to say.
Not in my name!
1. A said something to B (doesn't matter what he said)
2. C overheard and found it offensive.
3. Honestly, why should A & B care? (that wasn't intended for C!)
I shudder to think of a society where I must consider every word I say, just to avoid offending someone. Doing this will lead us to the kind of world described in Fahrenheit 451, where nobody can really write about anything or anyone because their opinions might offend someone.
Also, I guess someone doesn't understand the difference between `sexual` and `sexist`.