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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#371

Post by jasonlotito »

codesuela wrote: post #65
danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business. How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar joke…

> Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other?

She was speaking to one of the two people. Further, judging by the description which has only been supported, it was not a "private" conversation between two people.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#373

Post by [deleted] »

utunga wrote: post #321
azov wrote: post #301

No sane company fires a developer over some random acquisitions on twitter. I wonder if he can sue them for wrongful termination. He can probably even claim gender discrimination - would he be fired if, everything else being the same, he was a girl? It would be ironic, given that this kind of lawsuits is probably the reason why his employer reacted this way in the first place.

I totally agree. Firing someone over a tweet sent by a third party - is just nuts. The tweeter (Adria) is not really responsible here, rather the person(s) that overreacted to it.

[deleted]

Re: The PyCon Incident

#374

Post by ceol »

tomp wrote: post #295
rhizome wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. My sense is that she herself didn't bat much of an eye until she decided that it was a problem. If you read her account, she acted in order to protect a photograph: I saw a photo on main stage of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop. I realized I had to do something or she would nev…

Her post is quite good, and provides a very good argumentation for her actions. For a moment, I almost agreed with her. Then I realized the problem, the same one that feminists are facing more and more; women want to be equal, but they want to keep certain privileges. They want to be accepted by men in tech as equals, but be spared sex jokes (that, btw, have nothing to do with tech, but have a lot to do with men; in…

> women want to be equal, but they want to keep certain privileges.

What privilege is this that she wants to keep? Women are already bombarded with sex jokes. The fact it's such an outrage she spoke up is testament to that.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#375

Post by newnewnew »

danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Every closed society needs its secret police. In the PC world, you stay in line or you are fired, shunned, silenced and ostracized.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#376

Post by alukima »

blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Adria acting as judge and jury over twitter was totally wrong. She should have contacted PyCon Staff if she felt uncomfortable.

That said, sexual comments at conventions get old really fast. Sure it's the first time you've made the tits or GTFO joke today but it's the billionth time I've heard it. Then there are the guys, total strangers, who want to quiz you on your 'nerd' qualifications. They also like to stand behind you when you are checking out a product or game demo, making smug comments like "she has no idea what that is", "I bet she can't even figure out how to shoot".

And the worst ones, the guys who are outright hostile towards women. These are few and far between but I've had men come up to me at conventions and say "No one thinks you're special because you're a girl". No idea who they are or what I did to deserve it.

The feeling that builds up for me is the exact same feeling I had when bullied at school. You let it each instance slide because individually they don't seem like such a big deal and you don't want to seem like a whiner. But at the end of the day they start to get to you and you feel less than human.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#377

Post by clinth »

blhack wrote: post #21
jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

You know, I've been thinking... It's also pretty unprofessional to wear jeans to work, and beer after 4:00pm on Friday is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. Also the schedule that the developers keep is really unprofessional. If one of the accountants tried to show up at 11:00am, they'd be fired! I also saw some pictures of one of our devs at Burning Man last year. He was wearing some sort of black, canvas skirt, and…

He was in a public professional setting, representing the company with a badge that said Sponsor, which more than likely paid for his entire trip to go and represent that company there. He was on the clock.

Off-hours work friendships are not at all comparable.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#378

Post by WalterSear »

Karunamon wrote: post #93
djcapelis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. I think we need to stop doing this bullshit in general. I'd much rather have our community check each other and shame each other on Twitter than having employers step in and decide that thing X or thing Y is not okay for their employees to say in their personal capacity at a conference or on Twitter. As far as I've heard, Adr…

>But it's also inappropriate (read: fucking insane) to boycott a company because you don't like what one of their employees posts on their personal twitter account. What's good for the goose... I.e. if it's only fair for someone to be canned based on the postings on some random's personal twitter account, it's only fair for it to work in reverse. Employers can people based on their personal lives all the time. Also,…

From her employer's site: http://i.imgur.com/uWc8P39.png

She makes penis jokes on twitter, works at a company that makes jokes about photocopying genitals, and she gets offended when someone in the row behind her says 'dongle'. Sounds about right.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#379

Post by bryans »

wpietri wrote: post #129
moistgorilla wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a picture of two people without their permission and posting it on the internet eventually causing one of them to get fired doesn't seem like abuse to you? Why didn't she tell them to just be quiet? That's what normal people do.

Taking pictures at conferences and posting them on Twitter happens all the time. That's definitely not abuse. Quoting what people say at conferences also happens all the time. So that's not abuse. She was not involved in the firing; if that's abuse, it's not hers. She explained why she didn't just tell them to be quiet on her blog. But here's my take: It is not her job to teach people how to behave properly in public…

Using status to distribute pictures and quotes of conference attendees in an attempt to publicly shame them for conduct that she clearly misinterpreted as sexist, and also to force her own values onto others, is pretty much the definition of abuse (of both power and public trust).

By defending her and using phrases like "maintain a safe space," you make it sound like quietly speaking innocuous words is of any legitimate concern or consequence. In reality, Adria's behavior was far, far worse and did, in fact, have serious consequences that will adversely affect an individual's career.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#380

Post by jasonlotito »

integraton wrote: post #369
jasonlotito wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baseless? PyCon disagrees, and apparently, so do the two friends. http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... So, unless PyCon is lying, the claims were verified. If they had not been, you'd have a point. If she had made the claims, but never went to PyCon and resolved it properly, you'd be dead on.

PyCon's response was appropriate. SendGrid's representative's response was not.

What response? Speaking up?
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