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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#251

Post by ajross »

ubasu wrote: post #209
blhack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It went further than that, though. http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont...

From this article: "I saw a photo on main stage of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop. I realized I had to do something or she would never have the chance to learn and love programming because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so." Seems a tad melodramatic as a reaction to a private conversation. Seems to go with the Joan-of-Arc complex: https://twitter.com/adriarich…

From the same blog post you just quoted:

> I agreed with [the guy behind me] ... He said he would be interested in forking the repo [...] That would have been fine until the guy next to him... began making sexual forking jokes

I don't see how that constitutes a private conversation. The joke was apparently interjected into a discussion she was already part of.

Now, I still don't think the "public shaming" attempt was a good idea, and I certainly wouldn't support firing the guy (if that actually happened; again, no evidence at hand!). But I'm seeing the anti-Adria crowd here really bending over backwards to make this her fault. I think it's entirely reasonable to be offended by this, nor is it unreasonable to tweet or blog about it. That she got a little too hot-headed and posted a picture seems to be all anyone wants to talk about.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#252

Post by moistgorilla »

wpietri wrote: post #129
moistgorilla wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a picture of two people without their permission and posting it on the internet eventually causing one of them to get fired doesn't seem like abuse to you? Why didn't she tell them to just be quiet? That's what normal people do.

Taking pictures at conferences and posting them on Twitter happens all the time. That's definitely not abuse. Quoting what people say at conferences also happens all the time. So that's not abuse. She was not involved in the firing; if that's abuse, it's not hers. She explained why she didn't just tell them to be quiet on her blog. But here's my take: It is not her job to teach people how to behave properly in public…

Context matters what you are trying to prove is a false equivalence. She chose to post them up on her personal wall of shame that has thousands of followers with a clear picture of both their faces and without their permission. Anyone with any experience on the internet understands how potentially ruining social media can be. Look at the recent Steubenville scandal (these people actually deserved it though). If you want to use something as powerful as social media as a tool for justice you better be ready to take responsibility if you are on the wrong side.

I also agree that the company that fired the person should also be held responsible for caving in to social pressure so easily. They are both responsible for the outcome.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#253

Post by potatolicious »

wpietri wrote: post #191
Joeboy wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.

Imagine this situation: You are walking down the street. It starts to rain, so you duck into the nearest business, a bar. You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry. That feeling of discomfort? The way your he…

> "You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry."

Only if you live in a world where gay men are, by default, rapists. Are we seriously replacing sexism with homophobia? Your analogy is far more offensive than the penis joke it's supposed to represent.

Since what crazy day did "gay men talking crudely about sex" means "my heterosexual anus is in danger"?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#254

Post by simonster »

blhack wrote: post #86
eridius wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to take sides here, but I do take issue with the claim that the "forking" thing was fabricated, or was irrelevant, because the intent of the person who spoke it was not sexist or even meant as a joke. The fact is, the way language is interpreted by the listener is far more important than how it was meant by the speaker. And it should be pretty obvious that the phrase "I want to fork his repo" could be ea…

"Fork his repo" is a reference to git. There is nothing sexual about it. Here's a repo for my hackerspace's website. At the top right of the page is the word "fork". https://github.com/heatsynclabs/new-hsl It's worth pointing out that Adria isn't a developer, and might not have realized that this wasn't a sex joke, he was talking about flattering somebody by forking their git repo.

It's also worth noting that GitHub used to show a page that says "Hardcore forking action" when you fork a repo, which seems far more objectionable than "I'd fork his repo" if you object to those sorts of things.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#255

Post by peterhunt »

btilly wrote: post #244
integraton wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a SendGrid customer, it concerns me that SendGrid would stand behind the initiation of a public controversy under such questionable circumstances, especially one that resulted in the firing of a developer from his job. SendGrid should be in the business of email deliverability, not public shaming. Edit: I've tempered my phrasing above quite a bit and removed references to individuals.

If my reading of her account is correct, the person who got fired was suggestion that Adria "check out his big dongle" which is a very explicit sexual joke directed at a specific stranger (her). The joke that she's making there is that her male friend should stuff socks in his pants to shock the screening TSA agent. This joke is not targeted at anyone in particular. The comment she's replying to is a factual descript…

This was a private conversation between two friends, none of whom referenced her or even knew she was listening.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#256

Post by jessaustin »

wpietri wrote: post #191
Joeboy wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.

Imagine this situation: You are walking down the street. It starts to rain, so you duck into the nearest business, a bar. You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry. That feeling of discomfort? The way your he…

I've spent some time in gay bars, and I'm not gay. (I have friends!) I've never felt the discomfort you're theorizing, even in those rowdy establishments where jokes are occasionally told.

I can imagine feeling unsafe in a bar, but it wouldn't be because of a romantic proposal. I can't imagine feeling unsafe in an auditorium listening to a technical presentation at a conference.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#257

Post by markisonfire »

tn13 wrote: post #53

This is what happens now: In an all male team we decide to hire a girl. But then someone says "we wont be able to crack fallus jokes anymore? ". Screw it lets hire a guy ...

I just don't...

What is wrong with making a joke about a penis? Why is that sexist? It would be sexist if they were directing jokes at or objectifying her. If they had said, "Would you like to see my dongle?" or "I'd like to fork your repo, Adria", I would understand her outrage.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#258

Post by Joeboy »

wpietri wrote: post #191
Joeboy wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.

Imagine this situation: You are walking down the street. It starts to rain, so you duck into the nearest business, a bar. You order a beer, and realize that you have stepped into a gay bar. The table behind you starts making jokes about how virgin anuses are the best. They are pretty big guys, leather daddies. You worry they're talking about you, about your anus. You worry. That feeling of discomfort? The way your he…

I am indeed getting a feeling of discomfort, because I feel some responsibility to challenge what I perceive to be a homophobic comment. I suppose that is similar to what Adria felt at Pycon.

Imagine you ended up in a gay bar, and two men were making crappy double-entendres about github repos. If that's scary, you're the one with the problem.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#259

Post by trbs »

I think Adria should have responded in a different manner first (by just turning around and saying "Please stop."), but neither of them deserve to lose their jobs over this. Most of the blame lies on PlayHaven for firing the guy anyway.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#260

Post by Proleps »

I'm glad I'm not a programmer in the US with all this sexism drama happening over there. If I where a programmer in the US I would never visit a conference, feels like walking through a mine field when you can't even make jokes about a dongle.
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