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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#71

Post by white_devil »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #33
blhack wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I've been thinking... It's also pretty unprofessional to wear jeans to work, and beer after 4:00pm on Friday is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. Also the schedule that the developers keep is really unprofessional. If one of the accountants tried to show up at 11:00am, they'd be fired! I also saw some pictures of one of our devs at Burning Man last year. He was wearing some sort of black, canvas skirt, and…

What's professional is defined by the context. It would not be professional to wear developer clothes or keep developer times as a bank executive. In neither context are sexual jokes considered professional. Actually, generally speaking you can be held personally liable for creating a hostile work environment if one of your colleagues if offended by your jokes and you keep making them (assuming you aren't fired for t…

> What's professional is defined by the context.

What's professional is just meaningless uptightery. What actually matters is getting shit done, and treating others well.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#72

Post by josh2600 »

Why didn't she just stand up and say something in a loud and authoritative voice? Wouldn't that have lent at least as much credence to her words as her tweet did without the permanent public embarrassment?

To put it bluntly, Social media is a complicated echo chamber fomenting sentiment into an explosion of mob mentality. Using it for this sort of point reflects negatively on the perpetrator, but also the victim. The public embarrassment of a loud plea for discretion would've sufficed.

This is just my opinion as a Monday morning quarterback, and while I don't think Dick jokes are appropriate at PyCon, I also don't think the reaction was appropriate.

This was not an eye for an eye.

The part where she makes a Phallic joke the next day via Twitter really set me off and it's probably the main reason I'm writing this reply.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#73

Post by lopatin »

mmanfrin wrote: post #44

I sure trust an anonymous pastebin from a throwaway account to make accusations about Adria's 'unfound accusations'. /s

Accusations? There's nothing to be taken on faith in the post. All facts are backed up by proof. There's nothing to "trust". Just stuff to agree/disagree with.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#74

Post by wonderyak »

dmishe wrote: post #18
jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

and there goes the freedom of speech

People used to conduct themselves with at least a bit of decorum and that affected 'free speech' very little.

Manners, common sense and general pleasantness seem to have been completely forgotton.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#75

Post by lukeman »

peterhunt wrote: post #43
danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

I don't think anyone takes issue with talking to the PyCon organizers and even having them removed from the conference. The employer made a mistake for sure, but so did your friend. Skewering someone in public on the Internet like that is immature and irresponsible. There are a million better ways she could have dealt with this.

> I don't think anyone takes issue with talking to the PyCon organizers and even having them removed from the conference.

They were not removed from the conference.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#76

Post by ahelwer »

Warning regarding the comments here: r/MensRights has recently taken an interest in HN regarding this case. A recent HN thread on this same topic is linked on the homepage[1], and there's been discussion of HN in particular here[2].

There's an agenda being pushed. Furthermore, the above PasteBin alleges the forking innuendo was pure fabrication in an attempt to paint Adria as a liar; the full story right from the source is found here[3].

The narrative being pushed is the same old feminism-has-gone-too-far crap where we live in a world in which men are terrorized by women who have the power to destroy lives with the snap of their fingers. Recognize this angle, ponder its absurdity, then form your own opinion.

Some other links to r/MensRights posts, in which Adria is called a "stupid twitter bitch" and a "terrorist" (yes, actually): [4] [5]

[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1aofm4/programme...

[2] http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1algtc/woman_at_...

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

[4] http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ao6mu/reaction_...

[5] http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1aonpl/thoughts_...

Re: The PyCon Incident

#77

Post by danilocampos »

codesuela wrote: post #65
danilocampos wrote: post #22

Couple pieces to this. First – the fact that this guy's employer made a kneejerk reaction is no one's fault but the employer. Next – let's talk about this red herring of "sexism." Making a phallus joke might be sexist depending on context. Or it might not be. Sexism is not at issue here. The individual in question concedes that they did, in fact, make the joke. From PyCon's code of conduct: "All communication should…

Are you seriously suggesting the code of conduct applies to PRIVATE conversations between TWO people who obviously know each other? It is not like they meant to offend somebody. I am assuming they weren't talking loudly but rather meant to converse between each other. How I talk to my buddy is no ones fucking business. How about you tell your friend of of those an American, a Russian and a German walk into a bar joke…

If it were private, it wouldn't have happened with people nearby to hear it and the photo wouldn't have depicted dozens of people surrounding.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#78

Post by princess3000 »

SODaniel wrote: post #70
ajross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

Personal vendetta or not. A person that reacts to a private conversation (inappropriate or not) by posting hearsay about two co-workers to 1000s of followers the way she did is NOT a person I would want to work with, even less hire. She has at the very least shown very bad judgement and should not be commended nor rewarded for it.

What's private about a conversation taking place in a busy ballroom at a convention, within full earshot of (probably) dozens of people?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#79

Post by jamesaguilar »

white_devil wrote: post #71
jamesaguilar wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's professional is defined by the context. It would not be professional to wear developer clothes or keep developer times as a bank executive. In neither context are sexual jokes considered professional. Actually, generally speaking you can be held personally liable for creating a hostile work environment if one of your colleagues if offended by your jokes and you keep making them (assuming you aren't fired for t…

> What's professional is defined by the context. What's professional is just meaningless uptightery. What actually matters is getting shit done, and treating others well.

Treating others well is typically thought of as a component of professionalism. How you "get shit done" is another component of it.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#80

Post by moistgorilla »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #37
moistgorilla wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who got harmed by this joke being told? No one, thus it's harmless.

Apparently it harmed someone enough that they were willing to complain to twitter about it. There have been a few good articles posted about why many women feel uncomfortable when the workplace is sexualized, especially in male-dominated industries. If you haven't read one, you may want to check into it.

This wasn't the workplace first of all. This was a conversation (albeit a dumb one) between two friends. Last time I checked, I didn't need to worry about everyone's delicate sensibilities when I was speaking with my buddies. Also, she wasn't harmed, the way you are using that word takes away all meaning it has. She was offended. That's it.

I would understand if they were saying a sexist joke or saying a joke that perpetuated some stereotype but all they were doing was saying a stupid joke about dongles and forking. How could that offend anyone that wasn't looking to be offended?

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