Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

691–700 of 774 posts

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#691

Post by vijayr »

fatjokes wrote: post #346

Articles like this are bullshit. Not in the sense that they're untrue, but in the sense it won't change a thing. Men buy diamonds because women want them. Women want them to show off to other women.

I disagree. I knew diamonds are annoying before reading the article, but I learned so much more reading it. It is possible that some woman might read this and not insist on a diamond ring with her boyfriend, and take gold or something more valuable instead. If this happens even in one case, it is worth the time the author(s) spent on the article.

Even if nothing changes as far as diamonds are concerned, it is still worth writing this article - imagine someone landing on this article and he/she hasn't heard of priceonomics before - they will read through their excellent other posts and learn a thing or two.

And lastly, look at the intense discussion at HN on this article. How many articles do that?

This is an awesome blog, consistently writing high quality articles. Thanks for writing this guys.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#692

Post by vijayr »

gliese1337 wrote: post #47
stephengillie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I didn't realize someone would reply. Here's my deleted post:) Are young couples foregoing the rest of the expensive ceremony along with avoiding the ring? Could the price of wedding and engagement rings be one cause of the declining marital rate in the US? What happened to the price of engagement rings over the past 10 years? How well does it mirror the prices of houses in the US?

I don't know about your last three questions, but my wife and I did forgo the expense. Our entire wedding and honeymoon, including reception decorations, food, flowers (lots of flowers...), photos, dress (with alterations), and rings cost around $3000. I don't even know how some people are capable of spending as much money as I've heard of them spending $20,000+ for a wedding? What in the world are you spending it on…

wow, it is awesome that she agreed to it. Not many people would.

I've seen middle class families in India spend 20K USD on weddings (all of their savings). So 20K in the U.S should be nothing?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#693

Post by utopkara »

kkshin wrote: post #560
utopkara wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't refrain from buying because diamonds are hard to extract, and people have to work hard for it. But, because the whole trade is dirty, and you don't want to take part in it. All diamonds are dirty because of the conflict diamonds, there can be no non-conflict diamonds. By purchasing diamonds, you are helping to keep the prices up and funding the blood diamonds as well.

I don't agree with your statement. Its equivalent to saying that I shouldn't consider buying ethically raised meat because its the same industry that factory farms are part of. One can identify the ethical quandaries and support producers that choose to eliminate them.

If ethically raised meat did not have a strict shelf life, could cross many borders, and fundamentally different regulatory areas, could be displayed as a status symbol to reinforce the perceived value of all meat, I would say the same thing about it too.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#694

Post by neilc »

triplesec wrote: post #685
jaggederest wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but just noting the market's strangeness, that there is no relation in price and a wine's agreed quality. Correct! Price correlates with rarity and place of origin and all sorts of other neat stuff, but as far as 'will I like this wine?', ain't no there there. That said, individual people should buy based on their tastes - but a $20 bottle of Burgundy wine has even odds to be better than a $40 bottle of Burgundy. T…

We'll then just have to agree too disagree. Until you can show me some good and extensive research to demonstrate otherwise, I'll go with the extensive soft data there is out there to support the consensual position.

This study is worth a skim: http://www.wine-economics.org/aawe/wp-content/uploads/2012/1...

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#695

Post by tammer »

triplesec wrote: post #483
csallen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there has to be merely one single solitary reason for the popularity of diamonds. Whenever you see profound effects (in this case, a massive number of people people grossly overpaying for a useless rock), it's worth considering the possibility that you have several strong forces all pushing in the same direction. In this case, yes, advertising doesn't hurt. But there are plenty of other factors that may…

csallen, thank you for thinking of making a list! I do have one or two more reasons to add to your list. 1. Cognitive dissonance reduction: he spent so much, so to avoid cognitive dissonance he's going to tell himself she's worth it. Helps keep marriages together. It is the same reason that hazing ritual happen in college and why secret societies have all sorts of strange initiation rituals, often hazardous or diffic…

I think your second point is the most salient.

Advertising does one thing, and one thing only: create symbolic associations. (Well, I guess web ads are a departure, since the goal is a click).

What does Coke's advertising budget actually pay for? Images of people having fun and drinking Coke, which are then distributed through every media known to man. Three billion just for Coke = fun, popular. Think about that for a minute, and you'll recognize it's almost impossible to comprehend how intimate symbols really are, how they turn something intangible into something real that you can buy.

Now let's look at the diamond. In my opinion there is only one association that actually drives the purchase. Diamond = marriage. And not just marriage. The loving side of marriage, the tender and personal one as opposed to the banal legal one symbolized by a certificate or the familial one symbolized by the ceremony.

You can come up with a story as to why you don't have one, but there always must be a story. The diamond needs no story, because it's already a symbol. I'd love to see some examples of the early advertising campaign the article discusses.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#696

Post by maratd »

astrodust wrote: post #678
maratd wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there isn't. If the girl is even slightly intelligent, she will want proof of that financial security and a diamond ring is adequate proof that she can verify on her own.

If the girl is even slightly intelligent she'll be able to make an assessment without needing a glittery ring. Maybe you think that flashing your wealth, not unlike a peacock fanning out their feathers, will get you a mate. It probably will, but it will probably be the kind of mate that is attracted to money.

All mates are attracted to money, some are simply more attracted than others.

> If the girl is even slightly intelligent she'll be able to make an assessment without needing a glittery ring.

Because she's clairvoyant? An expensive car can be rented or borrowed, a house can be inherited, bank statements easily faked. Men do these sorts of things. Frequently.

But a ring she has been pining on and on about? A ring she can easily get appraised? No. You can't fake that. You will need to fork over the cash and when all of your money is going toward regular expenses and all of a sudden you have to fork over 10K in cold hard cash, that's a strain and a fine test of a man's ability to withstand financial shock.

Wait til you have a baby. Now that's a real financial shock.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#697

Post by danudey »

taejo wrote: post #599
slavak wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but it's impossible for me to know where in Africa the diamond is coming from, which means it's impossible to know whether or not it's a conflict diamond. I know that diamond miners in Russia or India have decent working conditions and that there's no chance of the proceeds going to fund a bloody civil war; I have no such confidence when the most specific answer the jeweler can give me regarding the stone's origi…

Is it really true (I'm not doubtful, just shocked) that the jeweller can tell you what country the diamond came from unless that country is in a particular continent?

Because of the 'blood diamond' controversy, the diamonds get mixed up together, sold around, exported, smuggled, etc. There's no way to track them.

Canadian ice diamonds, on the other hand, are all laser-engraved with a serial number, making it possible to verify each diamond's authenticity and source. According to the jeweller I spoke to, the only guarantee she could make is 'Canadian' or 'not Canadian'; she couldn't even guarantee me African, Russian, etc.

She did, of course, offer to sell me a ring with 'who knows' diamonds and then remove them and put Canadian diamonds in, but at that point I'm paying for 'who knows' and Canadian diamonds, which seemed a little idiotic.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#698

Post by katbyte »

ensignavenger wrote: post #633
enraged_camel wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

I am very glad that my wife was reasonable and agreed that I need not get her a diamond. She still wanted a ring, so I designed and made a claddagh style ring for her, with a blue topaz set in silver. It cost me less than $50, plus many hours researching, designing, and carving the wax mold. (I have a friend who is a jeweler, and he was able to provide expert assistance and tools to get the job done :) Now, rather th…

I would be far more happy to have a ring made for me then one that was just bought from a store no matter what the price difference for all sorts of reasons (unique, easy to just spend money, hard to actually make one wtc)

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#699

Post by Zimahl »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #114
Zimahl wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just all agree that we can send a man to the moon but there will never be an algorithm that can help you figure out even 1% of the female psyche.

> Let's just all agree that we can send a man to the moon but there will never be an algorithm that can help you figure out even 1% of the female psyche. This was the comment that convinced me that you are a sexist.

This was the comment that convinced me that you are a sexist.

I can honestly say that you are being over-sensitive here. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. You should remove the stick.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#700

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #304
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN