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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

111–120 of 774 posts

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#111
post #89
post #48

This article is interesting. I remember in Geology class when our teacher explained that you could make synthetic diamonds for a fraction of the price of a real diamond. He then asked all the women if they would rather have a natural diamond or a synthetic diamond, and almost all of them raised their hands. He then went on to explain that it was like the difference between natural ice and ice made in a freezer. He as…

But your geology teacher wasn't even correct. You can't make synthetic diamonds with similar color characteristics to natural diamonds at a fraction of the price. In fact, colorless synthetic diamonds are more expensive.

Not really true - it's relatively easy to make the diamonds colorless. Biggest difference is that the diamonds tend to have crystal structures that are a little rare in natural diamonds, since they grow very quickly compared to natural diamonds.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#112
post #93
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are. They've been sold the princess wedding, the diamond ring, the brand-name clothing, etc. It's difficult to break them of this so sometimes the fight isn't worth it. I didn't pay for my wedding so that was my in-laws problem although it wasn't grandi…

Yeah, they should spend money on something sensible, like a Porsche.

A Porsche for 25K, hook me up!

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#113

Trying to argue against engagement rings is like arguing against internet censorship. Your opinion is tainted before you open your mouth because the only people who could possibly oppose such things are cheap bastards or pedophiles, respectively. If you refuse to buy a diamond, it's because you're cheap or don't love "her" enough. No amount of hand waving or sensible logic will make up for the fact that you'll just l…

The most important lesson I learned recently is how little impact logic actually has on real world discussions. Way too much of what we do is driven by emotion.

So, given that, instead of trying to use logic to sway someone who needs a ring, what are some tactics that appeal to emotion that can work?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#114
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in all seriousness this would have ended in the 70s when feminist protests started. I started dating in the 70s: I thought it was a period of bizarre contrasts. But then as time went by, I realized dating has been bizarre since the time we were all living in caves.

Let's just all agree that we can send a man to the moon but there will never be an algorithm that can help you figure out even 1% of the female psyche.

> Let's just all agree that we can send a man to the moon but there will never be an algorithm that can help you figure out even 1% of the female psyche.

This was the comment that convinced me that you are a sexist.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#115

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention.

My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman:

1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way; and 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing.

An important thing to remember is that women take on a huge opportunity cost in getting married and having kids. My wife and I just had our first baby. Pregnancy and childbirth is a barbaric process and a woman will never be quite the same after. Taking care of an infant is tiring, stressful, boring, and thankless--and no matter how enlightened the husband is and how willing he is to help out, because of the baby's hard-wired inclinations the buck will always stop with the wife. Finally, if the woman is educated and has a career, that career will be permanently compromised by virtue of getting married and having kids. With all this in the background, it is evident that the social convention of the ring conveys valuable information to a woman considering getting married and bearing these costs. Re: 1, all else being equal a man that can provide more is more valuable than a man that can provide less. Re: 2, all else being equal a man that is willing to forgo things for himself is better than a man who is not; Re: 3, all else being equal a woman's social life will be positively affected in a tangible way by marring a man of higher social standing than of a lower one. It is totally rational for a woman to ask: "I'm willing to give up all this, what are you willing to do?" The ring is just a way to demonstrate this commitment in a way that is universally understood and spares everyone the awkward conversation of laying all the chips on the table.

Now, these elements are less important in 2013 than they were in say 1813. But at the same time to an extent they are not diminished in importance, but rather culture has shifted to downplay the uncomfortable truths at the root of these elements. For example, we like to downplay how much women really give up by being the child-bearers. But for an educated woman, if having kids cuts the probability of attaining a high position on her career by half,[1] the choice to have kids could mean millions of dollars in lost income over a lifetime. It's totally rational for a woman thinking of making such a compromise to demand from her potential husband a gesture showing that he is willing and able to take the other half of the bargain. But all this is something that we don't say in polite company, because we have fully bought into the mythologies about marriage that are in vogue at the moment: that it's just about "love" and all that matters is a mate that makes you "happy" and that it's an arrangement that is costless to enter into and exit out of.

There is, of course, nothing inherent about diamonds that makes them the only option for this kind of signaling. Indeed, in other cultures a cash gift is the norm instead. But the value of a signal is in its standardization, so to speak, and it just so happens that the diamond is the standard signal in western culture.

[1] Less than 20% of women never have kids, but about half of very high achieving women (executives, etc) never have kids.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to make posts like this. I'm starting to feel like these words will merge in the next 100 years, and either form will be correct for all usages. This kind of errata in our language doesn't help us do anything and it just causes confusion and frustration.

Agreed. English is already just a mash up, I could care less about grammar so long as what you are trying to say is getting across to me. Certain areas require a comma or period otherwise can be read wrong but I have never had a problem with their, your, its, or any other such words confusing me into not understanding what the writer is trying to say... Reminds me of growing up "Ain't ain't a word!"

> "Ain't ain't a word!"

Fixed: "'Ain't' ain't no word!"

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to make posts like this. I'm starting to feel like these words will merge in the next 100 years, and either form will be correct for all usages. This kind of errata in our language doesn't help us do anything and it just causes confusion and frustration.

Agreed. English is already just a mash up, I could care less about grammar so long as what you are trying to say is getting across to me. Certain areas require a comma or period otherwise can be read wrong but I have never had a problem with their, your, its, or any other such words confusing me into not understanding what the writer is trying to say... Reminds me of growing up "Ain't ain't a word!"

While I'm hardly a perfect English speaker, I have to admit those errors bother me. It's like talking to someone who is picking his nose - the content may be there, but still in a distracting and irritating form.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#118
post #93
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are. They've been sold the princess wedding, the diamond ring, the brand-name clothing, etc. It's difficult to break them of this so sometimes the fight isn't worth it. I didn't pay for my wedding so that was my in-laws problem although it wasn't grandi…

Yeah, they should spend money on something sensible, like a Porsche.

Porsche makes WAY more sense than a diamond ring. So do hookers and blow!

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#119
I can imagine any number of men saying "How ridiculous that I have to buy a diamond!" but without extending that thought process to marriage itself.

In that sense, buying a diamond is like graduating from college -- you've demonstrated a willingness to engage in possibly irrational behavior in furtherance of a widely revered symbol. This is not to say that college has no value, only that its value is often much less than the required investment. Just like marriage.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#120
post #74

What are some cool alternatives to a diamond ring? I want to get a ring with a carbon nanotube "gem", but there doesn't seem to be a practical way to acquire that.

http://io9.com/5902212/ten-gemstones-that-are-rarer-than-dia...

All of these are rarer than diamonds and most cost less.

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