It seems from the comments from the individuals involved in the incident that the "perpetrators" of said offensive have been genuinely apologetic and remorseful. While Ms. Richards although apologizing for the fact that one of the jokers lost their job has not really apologized for making this a big stink over social media. I agree, if you have a concern use the Code of Conduct to your advantage or talk to them directly but why take their picture and post it on twitter with some vague description what you think they said if not to shame or humiliate them publicly. Well, why would she apologize? Being a media personality, (that what she is, a tech PR person that gets in front of people and talks for a living, ignore the Tech. Evanglist BS), using social media effectively is probably integral to her business model. If she admits that the original posting to twitter was uncalled for then its akin to saying she can't do part of her job in an ethical manner. So what is she to do, double down of course. Instead of being an adult and admitting she made a mistake as well, she needs to play the "Joan of Arc" card in order to garner more sympathy and divide the audience. Sure she makes herself look like an asshole to some but doing it but at least she saves face with a lot of people she hopes to potentially sell her services to. Instead she should admit that she got ticked off and decided to use her considerable PR skill to make an example out of two people. Well guess what, pay back is a bitch. I just checked your blog and it's down. It seems cloudfire isn't helping you, and by the Out of memory error message that's returned, (which by the way, if you are a "tech evangelist" you should know is incredibly insecure to display error messages like that on a production website) it seems like that DDOS is working. The internet is a double edged sword and it seems like it's swinging back her way. From my point of view, this is the ultimate in fairness. Her actions caused a person to lose their job, (I don't believe for a second that if she had not posted to twitter, if she had gone to the con staff or directly confronted the jokers, that anybody would have lost a job.) so she should lose an equivalent dollar amount in lost job opportunities and page views.
Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
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Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I would be Mr Hank I would go and sue Adria as she took a photo of him and distributed it without his consent. This is a serious privacy issue. I would like to read her post after she gets fired in a similar way because of a photo. I'm sure she would feel the pain.
And you would lose. > In the United States [..] consent is not as a rule required to photograph people in public places and publish those photos. Hence, unless there are specific local laws to the contrary, overriding legal concerns (e.g., defamation) or moral concerns (e.g., picture unfairly obtained) [..] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Photographs_of_ide...
Actually, there's a strong case for 'tort of false light'.
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#273Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cards Against Humanity is irrelevant to the issue. Also it's not about being puritanical and easily offended. Being a male geek/dork/nerd/outcast in school doesn't excuse behavior that causes a hostile, sexualized, or otherwise unwelcoming environment. I, a female geek, was an outcast too and participated in many of the activities you mention, yet I came out mature. You claim that male engineers (which you referred t…
Forking and dongle jokes are benign. Unless you are basically a mormon, I'm not sure how being a woman gives you a "right" to be offended by something like this.
I'm a Mormon and I definitely wasn't offended. I may have even chuckled.
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment is stupid. Sexual jokes made by strangers create a hostile environment for women. Don't do it. Period. If you are among friends, go crazy and nobody gives a damn.
> Sexual jokes made by strangers... Is a joke about a 'big dongle' a sexual joke, or an anatomical joke? Is a joke about someone having fat fingers a sexual joke, since fingers can be used in sexual acts? > ...create a hostile environment for women And not men?
Is a joke about a 'big dongle' a sexual joke, or an anatomical joke?
I feel like you're being willfully obtuse here. The penis is commonly used for exactly two things. Sex is the only reason why anyone would consider it advantageous to have a large penis.
And not men?
Sure, men too. Let me repeat that: you are "allowed" to be offended about this if you are a man. People tend to say "creates a hostile environment for women" not because of assumption or stereotype but because of many personal accounts of specific women who say that this sort of joking makes them feel like they're in a hostile environment.
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> For context, I'm a developer evangelist. Actually, no, you are not. You are - by definition - a terrorist, applying unlawful use of force or violence against people with the intention of intimidating or coercing groups of people and societies for ideological or political reasons. The fact that you do have supporters shows the sad state of affairs this world is in.
My, how flexible the word 'terrorist' has become.
how flexible the word "evangelist" has become
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#277What just blows my mind, is that Adria keeps referring to this as an issue against females. The comment (as clarified by the terrible perpetrator elsewhere) was about a part of male physiology and not directed towards any person, male or female. She just keeps repeating how this is some sort of female issue. I frankly don't see the connection. I do see how some puritanical folks could be upset, because you know, sex…
> I frankly don't see the connection
If you're having trouble making a connection, you might be in need of a dongle.
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
It creates a sexualized environment, here's a good article: http://geekfeminism.org/2012/10/01/when-sex-and-porn-are-on-... It's hard to understand the "hero" feeling unless you've been quiet and avoided speaking out on similar (and often bigger) events. It feels good to stand up for your fellow females and community, even if you get negative public attention for it. I think more things big and small should be addres…
Tits in slides make a sexist environments. Blonde jokes make sexist environments. Groping makes sexist environments. Light innuendo does not create sexist environments. This woman publicly humiliated someone and lost them their job for doing absolutely nothing wrong. That is fucked up.
(nit-pick) There's a difference between sexist and sexualized.
FWIW, I'm not sure where I fall on all of this – but my hunch says there's a bunch to be unhappy about all around. Having said that, I'll throw this out:
In my experience, men (I am one) tend to be more okay with a small amount of sexualization in conversation. Women tend not to be. (extreme generalization, but a real distinction, I believe).
Say what you will about which is right or wrong, but I think that the important point is the general difference between the way men and women see things. That difference is real, regardless what any one of us would want one side or the other to be.
So, the question becomes, how do we deal with it and how do we minimize conflict?
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#279Seriously, Adria (and all of you who are defending her actions)--you got this one wrong; it was a false positive on your sexism scale. As a philosophical Marxist, I count myself among those who not only inherently support gender equality, but are from the thought tradition that started the damn movement. In graduate school, my thesis focused on the Southeast US from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act of 1964…
While I am only a visitor from Reddit on this website and I will likely not post on here again, I felt compelled to make an account and reply to your post. You sir, win the internet award for 3-20-13 for your outstanding writing, cogent points, and social awareness. One does not often see this quality of writing and thoughts combined into a singular document on internet sites, and for making me think at the end "oh m…
I say that rather than focusing on women's rights or men's rights, we as a society need to put more of an emphasis on equality overall, and making a concerted effort to eliminate sexism from both directions at the same time. In doing so it would help with the issue of the historically oppressed group B from rising to a point in which group A is now oppressed, as either a byproduct of the increase in rights or as revenge for their oppression. While men are oppressed in ways that many people fail to notice, and are expected to act in certain ways and exhibit "manliness", a men's rights movement is not the answer. What is needed is an individual rights movement, to allow everyone equal opportunity to do what they want and be who they are, so long as it does not infringe on anyone else's rights. When the focus is on gaining rights for a single group then typically that group will end up either above the other group(s) or it will remain lower, resulting in continued discontentment. If men fight for equal rights, while not equal they may still receive additional rights, but these may come at the cost of women not having these rights, and so the cycle repeats.
Re: Inappropriate comments at pycon 2013 called out
#280What's next, are they going to go out and get the news, television programming, and all other media outlets to stop the sexism? Why are they trying to ruin all conferences? Why does the court of public opinion not target those outlets?
Oh, because they can't get any traction. That's why.