Diamonds Are Bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#671

Post by mullingitover » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 5:42 PM UTC

taejo wrote: post #490

slavak wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why many women will accept, at the rational level, that diamonds are horrible and stupid and even evil (since they fuel all kinds of violence in Africa, where they are mined). But most of them will not be able to bring themselves to accept substitutes such as sapphires, rubies, or emeralds. Because that would make their female friends think that the guy does not value them as much (or that they weren't able…

> but eventually had to settle for a natural one which wasn't sourced from Africa Because Africa is all one big war zone. Because any money sent to Africa funds violence. Seriously? Why is it so much better to buy from Russia than South Africa or Botswana? (the money's all going to De Beers -- which was originally a South African company -- or a similar multinational anyway). The top four diamond-producing countries…

The problem with buying diamonds from anywhere is that you're giving conflict diamonds added value through the simple fact of your demand for them. They're a fungible commodity. Essentially there is no diamond that is not a blood diamond.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#672

Post by mullingitover » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 5:46 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #597

mullingitover wrote: post #193

Always buy a nice-looking but cheap cubic zirconia engagement ring. If she accepts it graciously, she's a keeper. If she runs out and gets it appraised, and angrily leaves you, you dodged a bullet.

The problem with this is that you are essentially lying to her while you ask her to marry you . I wouldn't be able to stomach it. In my head there are basically three options: 1. Talk rationally and convince her that no diamond or CZ engagement ring. 2. A small ring that essentially go unnoticed to a tech person's budget. 3. Do the whole 1.5 to 2.5 Carat thing. The problem with 1. is that people will think you are an…

This is a reasonable point. For me, I'm inclined to believe that if the relationship is so transactional that the diamond is a required payment, then the relationship is already doomed.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#673

Post by estebank » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #529

When we got married 22 years ago my wife was about to go into law school and I was living on a pittance doing a PhD - so we didn't spend much money on rings. These days, although she still has her original engagement and wedding rings she doesn't wear them. What she does is buy rings every year or two and designate these as her "official" engagement and wedding rings... The particularly amusing thing is that she neve…

Well, they are real, as long as they really are in her finger they are as real as any expensive ring or a ring that came with the cereal. :)

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#674

Post by astrodust » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #444

astrodust wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men seek out highly attractive women using different criteria, but that doesn't mean they're successful . There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Maybe I'd like to work for a company that gives me a yacht, but I'm not going to demand a yacht as terms of employment.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#675

Post by astrodust » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #507

astrodust wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your viewpoint is skewed extremely strongly towards the peculiar tendencies expressed in Western society and America in particular. Not everyone has two SUVs, two kids in private schools, and a vacation home.

He explicitly doesn't, his whole point was to say that the ways of expressing affluence differ between regions and culture.

That point was made, then completely dismissed when stating that the "majority" of women demand a man that can provide a diamond.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#676

Post by gfodor » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:01 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #544

gfodor wrote: post #497

Ah, another thread full of bitter men who do not want to buy a diamond because they are "worthless." I bought the girl a diamond because she wanted a diamond. It makes her happy. She says it makes her smile every day. That's "worthless", huh? If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. But there is no such thing, for her. For some girl…

> If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. You could try with true feelings, they don't cost much.

The best part about diamond threads are when people see fit to judge other people's relationships over it.

If you don't want to buy her a diamond, fine. But realize what an asshole you sound like when you judge other people over something as stupid as if they bought an engagement ring.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#677

Post by astrodust » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:05 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #446

astrodust wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better ways to demonstrate your capability as a provider and evidence of financial security than buying diamond rings. For example, demonstrate you can care for a dog goes a long way. Owning and maintaining a house even further. A friend of mine got married. He could've bought his wife an extravagant engagement ring, but he put it to her in different terms, along the lines of: "Would you like an expensive r…

Why do people insist on citing outliers as if that somehow negates the trend? It really derails and otherwise productive discussion. Yes, for every general rule there are always outliers. It's so obvious that it serves no useful purpose to state it explicitly.

The perception that an expensive diamond is required is flawed. I'm trying to illustrate that it's an institution that's crumbling.

I really doubt that a significant percentage of those under ten will even bother with a diamond ring when at the age where they'll be getting engaged. By then they'll either be so saddled with student debt as to make the purchase impractical, or they'll be working two minimum wage jobs just to get by.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#678

Post by astrodust » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:07 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #478

astrodust wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an enormous difference between wanting financial security and wanting someone to buy them a giant diamond ring as a token of it.

No, there isn't. If the girl is even slightly intelligent, she will want proof of that financial security and a diamond ring is adequate proof that she can verify on her own.

If the girl is even slightly intelligent she'll be able to make an assessment without needing a glittery ring.

Maybe you think that flashing your wealth, not unlike a peacock fanning out their feathers, will get you a mate. It probably will, but it will probably be the kind of mate that is attracted to money.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#679

Post by kamjam » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

pifflesnort wrote: post #202

rayiner wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…

> It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. A sensible man only cares what other people think about him when it is to his benefit to do so. A foolish man cares what other people think about him all of the time. > People who buck social conventions sometimes become trend-setters and are incredibly successful for it, but more often just make life harder on themselves and the peop…

Exactly. It's like Valentines day. I ignore it, my girlfriend ignores it. Why should I need some marketing guy to tell me when to tell my girlfriend I love her, that should be happening anyway. To me conforming just tells me you're just a sucker in these kinds of instances.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#680

Post by gfodor » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 6:15 PM UTC

okamiueru wrote: post #531

gfodor wrote: post #497

Ah, another thread full of bitter men who do not want to buy a diamond because they are "worthless." I bought the girl a diamond because she wanted a diamond. It makes her happy. She says it makes her smile every day. That's "worthless", huh? If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. But there is no such thing, for her. For some girl…

Alright, I'll bite. See, when you say you see a "thread full of bitter men", I cant help but feel you are expressing some kind of bitterness yourself. At least, I don't share your dismissive feelings towards the concept that a ring should symbolize more than monetize (yeah, strawman right back at'ya :) ). You know... when something is _really_ important, yet no argument is provided to back it up. "Makes her smile", i…

I'm sure you have your own "unattractive red flags" yourself. So do I. We are human, after all. Relationships are about compromise, understanding, and doing things for the other person to make them happy that we may not understand or agree with. This is one of those things. The only reason people in this thread get so bent out of shape on this particular decision (ill speculate) is because of the amount of money involved. Other similar things do not get nearly as much scrutiny. This tells more about an obsession over money on the part of that person than it does about the girl wanting the ring. If your partner doesn't want one, great, but why does it seem fit to say on this particular thing to cast such judgement and provide such passionate explanations as to why you refuse to spend money on this, no matter what she wants?

Basically these threads boil down to money, not ethics, not morals, not character, not de beers, or any of that bullshit. It's only an issue because of a high price tag. There are millions of other issues that have thorny ethical consequences but the reason this thread is so filled with passionate arguments judging other people is because of the amount of money involved.