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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#561

Post by roel_v »

cookiecaper wrote: post #522
roel_v wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they like nice cars. (I don't have a Porsche).

There are many nice cars that aren't Porsches, and there are ways to own and/or drive a Porsche discreetly. No matter how nice a car is, the large-scale social consequences of flashing a status symbol should be considered before purchasing a brand associated with that, especially for a daily driver.

Sure, I was just being antagonistic.

Last week I was in a sales training course where the trainer explained 'leitmotifs' of buyers, one being 'status', his example being 'a guy driving a Porsche and wearing a Rolex'. Of course there was one guy there with a Porsche and a Rolex who then found it necessary to defend his choices as being objective, rational, etc. (He didn't need to, but I guess it's hard not feeling being put on the spot in a situation like that). Still it was funny seeing him squirm while being hit over the head with all sorts of variations of your argument. (not that I disapprove of status symbols or some such thing, I'd buy them if I could afford them I guess :) )

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#562

Post by JackMorgan »

pknight wrote: post #417
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

This depiction is camouflaging itself as if it is a brutally truthful account of the way things are, but I don't see how it even remotely stacks up to reality from any angle you look at it. * A minority of men are truly financially secure, doesn't seem to stop couples from marrying * Lots of people marry when young, a time when financial situations tend to be weak/modest. * With this kind of reasoning you might as we…

This is absolutely true. My wife was entirely happy with any sort of token of our marriage and engagement, being entirely confident of how special she is to me. There are women out there who do not care, just want to feel special. Some people react against a trend like buying diamonds and see NOT receiving one as a sign of how profoundly different and special they are. Oddly too, we both come from very low income families, so the over-compensating effect did not manifest. Everyone is different, all reasons for explaining something like a desire for diamonds never apply to everyone.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#563

Post by nasmorn »

lectrick wrote: post #342
enraged_camel wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

What if I bought a nominal ring and instead threw the rest of the money (and then some) at a REALLY awesome vacation for us?

Exactly what I did. Spent 6 months salary for 3 months of travel. I am from Austria though, so there was no social stigma attached

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#564

Post by Joeboy »

rwhitman wrote: post #61

Please don't remind me about this. I'm pretty sure every guy knows all this already and unless you have a super hippy / progressive girlfriend (and even then..) you will ultimately find out that even the most rational women could give a crap about the economic / social realities of the diamond market and still " need " a diamond of X carat in order to impress their family and friends. DeBeer's wins. Either you get ov…

> I'm pretty sure every guy knows all this already

No! I really don't! I kind of imagine that as a middle-class British guy I'm not too far from modal HN culture, but this sounds totally bizarre and alien to me.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#565

Post by tragomaskhalos »

maratd wrote: post #166
kyrra wrote: post #132

(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this. Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals). While work…

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

Basically, the diamond ring is the peacock's tail (as explained by Dawkins).

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#566

Post by blots »

enraged_camel wrote: post #304
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

> It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security.

I don't get it. Why would you even want to be engaged with women so stupid to want a shiny rock no matter what. If anything I'd want a man-made diamond, because it's cooler. I never even heard of the rule that you have to get a diamond ring for engagement, guess that's a USA thing. Well, my BF still bought me a good monitor, which is much more useful.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#567

Post by sjtrny »

lutusp wrote: post #509
sjtrny wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do extend the same thought process to marriage, although not enough of us as shown by some of the comments in this thread. On a related note: I don't want gay marriage. I want governments to stop handing out "you are in a relationship certificates" to EVERYONE.

> On a related note: I don't want gay marriage. No problem -- if you aren't gay, you aren't required to have a gay marriage. But ask yourself if you want to deny that right to other people. That's quite a different thing -- it's not unlike saying, "I don't want black people marrying white people." Before you reply saying, "But that's not a fair comparison -- black and white people are normal, but gay people are abnor…

You missed the point entirely, maybe you missed the second sentence?

> I want governments to stop handing out "you are in a relationship certificates" to EVERYONE.

I want LGBT equality. But beyond that, and looking at the bigger picture, I think the idea of marriage should be abolished altogether.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#568

Post by panacea »

triplesec wrote: post #483
csallen wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there has to be merely one single solitary reason for the popularity of diamonds. Whenever you see profound effects (in this case, a massive number of people people grossly overpaying for a useless rock), it's worth considering the possibility that you have several strong forces all pushing in the same direction. In this case, yes, advertising doesn't hurt. But there are plenty of other factors that may…

csallen, thank you for thinking of making a list! I do have one or two more reasons to add to your list. 1. Cognitive dissonance reduction: he spent so much, so to avoid cognitive dissonance he's going to tell himself she's worth it. Helps keep marriages together. It is the same reason that hazing ritual happen in college and why secret societies have all sorts of strange initiation rituals, often hazardous or diffic…

Another way of thinking about it is the age old saying:

'Blood is thicker than water' when referring to family over people you encounter.

Beyond the shared experiences and the irrational bond (I use the phrase as devil's advocate whilst being happily irrationally bonded with my family), there's not a lot to prescribing value to familial relationships over other ones.

We prescribe irrational value to diamonds, because offering a big rock to a bride in front of our family imbues value beyond the intrinsic worth of the rock.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#569

Post by sjtrny »

sjtrny wrote: post #498
lutusp wrote: post #119

I can imagine any number of men saying "How ridiculous that I have to buy a diamond!" but without extending that thought process to marriage itself. In that sense, buying a diamond is like graduating from college -- you've demonstrated a willingness to engage in possibly irrational behavior in furtherance of a widely revered symbol. This is not to say that college has no value, only that its value is often much less…

We do extend the same thought process to marriage, although not enough of us as shown by some of the comments in this thread. On a related note: I don't want gay marriage. I want governments to stop handing out "you are in a relationship certificates" to EVERYONE.

Clarification. I want LGBT equality including recognised marriages. But thinking about the bigger picture I don't see the point in state "you are in a relationship certificates" and think they should be abolished.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#570

Post by hp50g »

btilly wrote: post #377
lectrick wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I bought a nominal ring and instead threw the rest of the money (and then some) at a REALLY awesome vacation for us?

You have to find the right woman. A bit over 23 years ago I had a wedding which - including wedding bands - was under $200. I'm still married to her. We're both glad we didn't go into debt to get married...

+1 for this.

I've been happily married for 10 years and paid about the same for our wedding and bands. It was a registry office and cheap rings.

It was about the marriage and not the wedding.

I think people forget this these days.

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