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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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501–510 of 774 posts

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#501

Post by n09n »

tomp wrote: post #493
maratd wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

Wouldn't it make more sense (and be easier - more supply) if a woman "bought" a man for future earning potential , i.e. connections, skills, ambitions, ...? It's a great test for gold-diggers, though.

Potential is incredibly hard to judge. The cost of the ring he buys you is easy.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#502

Post by kamaal »

MarkMc wrote: post #439

Here's an idea for a non-profit start-up: 1. Produce man-made diamonds and sell them at the same price as De Beers diamonds. 2. Use the revenue to fund education and health-care in poor African villages. 3. Market your diamonds as 'clean diamonds' and label the De Beers diamonds 'blood diamonds'. Would that work?

Probably if you somehow ensure you don't get murdered by the criminals/mafia.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#503

Post by roel_v »

stephengillie wrote: post #271
eli wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you signal the value of your bank account besides using it to buy expensive things? (And this is certainly not a gender-specific problem: consider sports cars, gold chains, or bottle service at clubs)

You could signal directly, such as an ATM receipt. I understand the point you're making -- the value of expensive things in signaling to someone you don't know . I can't see the point in marrying someone if I couldn't trust them with my bank account. Edit: I'm realizing that this is entirely from my perspective. How does a woman without earning potential display her husband's wealth to her family and friends? She ask…

"You could signal directly, such as an ATM receipt."

Not sure what you mean here - are you saying 'show everybody the receipt'? That's not signalling, signalling includes 'being socially acceptable', which talking about how money you have or walking around showing your ATM receipts certainly isn't.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#504

Post by roel_v »

eli wrote: post #282
stephengillie wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could signal directly, such as an ATM receipt. I understand the point you're making -- the value of expensive things in signaling to someone you don't know . I can't see the point in marrying someone if I couldn't trust them with my bank account. Edit: I'm realizing that this is entirely from my perspective. How does a woman without earning potential display her husband's wealth to her family and friends? She ask…

Yes, it's for signaling peers, not partners. I assume most people who buy a Porche do so for the same reason: they want their community to know they have a lot of disposable income.

Or maybe they like nice cars. (I don't have a Porsche).

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#505

Post by pm90 »

tome wrote: post #487
robotresearcher wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| they want to be able to show off the diamonds to their group of (female) and boost their social status among them. That's true. But why do diamonds have high social status? Because they are expensive. They are a reliable signal of the wealth of the man. Social status is a proxy for actual wealth and power, and thus the probability of wealth and power for the woman's potential offspring. Unfortunately they have beco…

Lots of things are expensive though, so it has to be more than that.

It is more than that. Not only is it expensive, but its also small enough that you wear it everywhere. Think about why ipod/iphones are so popular amongst teenagers

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#506

Post by lxwang »

tome wrote: post #487
robotresearcher wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| they want to be able to show off the diamonds to their group of (female) and boost their social status among them. That's true. But why do diamonds have high social status? Because they are expensive. They are a reliable signal of the wealth of the man. Social status is a proxy for actual wealth and power, and thus the probability of wealth and power for the woman's potential offspring. Unfortunately they have beco…

Lots of things are expensive though, so it has to be more than that.

It's better if everyone in society can agree on the same signal to use. Otherwise it's too hard to verify.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#507

Post by roel_v »

astrodust wrote: post #430
learc83 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So the world is filled with gold-diggers? No. Not true. Wanting a mate who is financially secure doesn't make a woman a gold digger. It's no different than the vast majority of men who want a physically attractive mate. >You'll find it shocking that in some parts of the world people are happily married without any jewelry at all. Yes, different cultures have different standards (and there are outliers within culture…

I think your viewpoint is skewed extremely strongly towards the peculiar tendencies expressed in Western society and America in particular. Not everyone has two SUVs, two kids in private schools, and a vacation home.

He explicitly doesn't, his whole point was to say that the ways of expressing affluence differ between regions and culture.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#508

Post by roel_v »

astrodust wrote: post #422
dylangs1030 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeking financial security != gold digging. It's not sexist or derogatory. Financial security and status are evolutionary concepts that predate the diamond district. Diamonds are just one manifestation of a deeper, hardwired instinct to seek fit and capable mates. This isn't a cynical concept, it's backed by studies of the entire animal kingdom, not just humans.

There are better ways to demonstrate your capability as a provider and evidence of financial security than buying diamond rings. For example, demonstrate you can care for a dog goes a long way. Owning and maintaining a house even further. A friend of mine got married. He could've bought his wife an extravagant engagement ring, but he put it to her in different terms, along the lines of: "Would you like an expensive r…

Please, keep your "friend of mine" anecdotes out of generally intelligent discussion.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#509

Post by lutusp »

sjtrny wrote: post #498
lutusp wrote: post #119

I can imagine any number of men saying "How ridiculous that I have to buy a diamond!" but without extending that thought process to marriage itself. In that sense, buying a diamond is like graduating from college -- you've demonstrated a willingness to engage in possibly irrational behavior in furtherance of a widely revered symbol. This is not to say that college has no value, only that its value is often much less…

We do extend the same thought process to marriage, although not enough of us as shown by some of the comments in this thread. On a related note: I don't want gay marriage. I want governments to stop handing out "you are in a relationship certificates" to EVERYONE.

> On a related note: I don't want gay marriage.

No problem -- if you aren't gay, you aren't required to have a gay marriage. But ask yourself if you want to deny that right to other people. That's quite a different thing -- it's not unlike saying, "I don't want black people marrying white people."

Before you reply saying, "But that's not a fair comparison -- black and white people are normal, but gay people are abnormal", consider that (a) it wasn't too long ago that black people were unfairly regarded as abnormal, and (b) there's no good evidence that being gay is abnormal, as that word is most commonly used.

Also, why not ask yourself the same question that judges are expected to ask themselves before making a ruling -- which is "Where's the harm?" How does the existence of gay marriage hurt you personally? Consider that gay couples are going to live together anyway (because being gay is not a crime) -- all that changes is that the rights and traditions of civil unions extend to those couples.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#510

Post by [deleted] »

stephengillie wrote: post #271
eli wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you signal the value of your bank account besides using it to buy expensive things? (And this is certainly not a gender-specific problem: consider sports cars, gold chains, or bottle service at clubs)

You could signal directly, such as an ATM receipt. I understand the point you're making -- the value of expensive things in signaling to someone you don't know . I can't see the point in marrying someone if I couldn't trust them with my bank account. Edit: I'm realizing that this is entirely from my perspective. How does a woman without earning potential display her husband's wealth to her family and friends? She ask…

[deleted]
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