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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#431

Post by astrodust »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #400
mistercow wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

I've had this discussion on reddit far too many times with too many incredulous responses to what is plainly obvious if you're willing to see it: http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~rakison/bussandschmitt.pdf Yes, women seek men with status and financial security. I'd give you a pointer to a specific line or paragraph, but its all relevant.

Men seek out highly attractive women using different criteria, but that doesn't mean they're successful.

There's a difference between wanting something and demanding it.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#432

Post by will_brown »

npc wrote: post #353
will_brown wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was an interesting statement so I looked into it a little. I personally was less curious if there was a difference in the way men and women react to a constant advertisement, but I wanted to know the % of marketing dollars spent marketing towards women vs men. I did not find those exact numbers, but stumbled onto : http://www.she-conomy.com/facts-on-women There are a ton of crazy figures to digest on tha…

85% dollar-wise, or 85% of items purchased? Because I would argue that men tend to make fewer, but more expensive purchases, eg big tv, high end stereo, etc. I would still believe that things are skewed a bit since married women tend to make more of the purchasing decisions than their husbands (from what i understand), but 85% seems awfully high to me.

Check the link, it is extremely fascinating, but this is the relevant section:

>Women account for 85% of all consumer purchases including everything from autos to health care: 91% of New Homes 66% PCs 92% Vacations 80% Healthcare 65% New Cars 89% Bank Accounts 93% Food 93 % OTC Pharmaceuticals American women spend about $5 trillion annually… Over half the U.S. GDP

The list must be referencing "items purchased" rather than "dollar-wise". It is by no means definitive of the answer who makes more expensive purchases, but if women are buying 9 out of every 10 new houses, 65% of new cars, and 80% of healthcare plans what big ticket items are left for men to buy to outspend women?

Now the part at the end about $5 trillion being 1/2 the US GDP, might not be an error but be more telling of when these statistics are from (US GDP currently closer to $15T). Nevertheless like in my OP, the numbers are mind blowing, consider the following:

GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

Or

1/2 GDP = women spending = (private consumption - women spending) + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports)

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#433

Post by blndcat »

jenius wrote: post #357
enraged_camel wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

You absolutely nailed it with this comment. Was reading pieces of the debate out loud to my girlfriend, who is rather rational and intelligent but for some reason still wants a diamond ring (and I couldn't really figure out why) - when I read this and looked over, I knew you got it 100% right. Well done.

No such problem in my case. I explained I was strongly against the idea for most of the reasons listed in the original article and it wasn't a negotiable point. Basically if she still wanted the diamond ring then she didn't understand me well enough to be married to me. I didn't get all RMS-esque about it, but somethings are under our control, some aren't. It is one of those things that was. We got order-made platinum wedding rings instead.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#434

Post by linuxhansl »

Oh man. I had this discussion with my now wife.

The diamond ads even go as far as suggesting what percentage of your income you should spend on a wedding ring (oh and of course there has to be an engagement ring).

There is even guilt instilled if you do not spend that much; as if your love and commitment is somehow measured in the price of the wedding ring.

Don't fall for this bullsh*t.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#435

Post by clobber »

spankalee wrote: post #414
rayiner wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good diamonds depreciate less than say cars or stereo equipment or computers. A Tiffany's ring with GIA certs can resell for half its original purchase price. There is an active secondary market in diamonds, so if you buy a high-quality GIA certified stone used, you should be able to sell it for a similar price to what you bought it for. Most of the depreciation on a diamond happens the moment you "drive it off the l…

Where is this secondary market that you speak of?

Just those pawn shops that will give you 10% of what your shiny rock is 'worth'

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#436

Post by clobber »

mech4bg wrote: post #149
erikpukinskis wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I find the notion of "man as provider" to be perverse, but if I buy into your worldview for a moment... 1) Your wife can measure how much you can provide just as well by having you actually provide valuable things. Like a house. 2) Your wife can measure your unselfishness by having you buy something that is actually valuable to her but useless to you. Like daycations with her friends. There's no sense in bu…

A diamond ring is a signal that is _always_ showing, unlike something like a house. It's a signal to the world that displays someone's wealth, commitment, etc. This doesn't make it right, but there are numerous human psychology reasons why this tradition endures and so many people take part in it. Writing off people who want or provide a diamond ring as mentally ill (as many people in this thread seem to be doing) is…

> Writing off people who want or provide a diamond ring as mentally ill (as many people in this thread seem to be doing) is silly

No, wasting money on a valueless shiny rock is silly. But let's just keep advocating people 'keep up the tradition' instead.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#437

Post by ryanmolden »

rayiner wrote: post #347
mattstreet wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So childbirth is extremely dangerous but adopting a kid already out there looking for a home isn't an option for an educated couple...you'd rather your wife risk her health. That's some useful education.

Adoption is a great option for many couples, educated or not. I didn't say otherwise. What I said was that it's not a fully equivalent to having your own kids. Not worse, but not equivalent. If you're educated, high-IQ tiger parents and want to raise highly successful children, statistically you're better off having your own kids than adopting. This is not to say that adopted kids can't be successful or anything like…

>If you're educated, high-IQ tiger parents and want to raise highly successful children, statistically you're better off having your own kids than adopting

This is the most depressing thing I read in this whole thread. The idea that one should view raising "highly successful" children as some kind of outcome they can control or influence through "high IQ tigerness" and cold economic analysis is humorous and sad all at once. Coupled with encouragement to not buck a pointless social tradition because it may make (shallow, deplorable) people judge you as less worthy and thus may negatively impact your future prospects of becoming more like them seems like a rather sad way to live life, but I guess we all have our own goals. The fact that after thousands of years our species is still mesmerized by shiny rocks we dug out of the ground is also odd to me, but apparently not others.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#438

Post by lesterbuck »

omegant wrote: post #420
jenius wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely nailed it with this comment. Was reading pieces of the debate out loud to my girlfriend, who is rather rational and intelligent but for some reason still wants a diamond ring (and I couldn't really figure out why) - when I read this and looked over, I knew you got it 100% right. Well done.

Then buy used (the diamond) and pay for a nice ring design. But don't tell her.

My grandfather ran a grocery store throughout the Depression, and he accumulated a large selection of diamond rings from cash strapped customers. When my father and his brother were getting married, they had their choice of the rings.

I've always wondered how other diamond rings get recycled or removed from the market. Diamonds are forever, after all, so why doesn't the price collapse from being awash in used stones from three or four generations of dead women?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#439

Post by MarkMc »

Here's an idea for a non-profit start-up:

1. Produce man-made diamonds and sell them at the same price as De Beers diamonds.

2. Use the revenue to fund education and health-care in poor African villages.

3. Market your diamonds as 'clean diamonds' and label the De Beers diamonds 'blood diamonds'.

Would that work?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#440

Post by mixmastamyk »

kamaal wrote: post #423
mixmastamyk wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Financial security and status are two sides of the same coin.

Except that women value Financial security only when they grow old and are in need of money. While they are young, status is the deal they want because of pressures from social circles.

Same thing. The baby cravings (i.e. need for security) hit almost all women by age 24, many earlier... I don't think of that as old.
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