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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#141

Post by toast76 »

ohsnapman wrote: post #113
toast76 wrote: post #110

Trying to argue against engagement rings is like arguing against internet censorship. Your opinion is tainted before you open your mouth because the only people who could possibly oppose such things are cheap bastards or pedophiles, respectively. If you refuse to buy a diamond, it's because you're cheap or don't love "her" enough. No amount of hand waving or sensible logic will make up for the fact that you'll just l…

The most important lesson I learned recently is how little impact logic actually has on real world discussions. Way too much of what we do is driven by emotion. So, given that, instead of trying to use logic to sway someone who needs a ring, what are some tactics that appeal to emotion that can work?

The best you can hope for is a compromise.

- get a secondhand stone and have it re-set. - get certified non-conflict diamond (or in my case, an Australian diamond) - get some other precious stone

The best one is to get hold of a family heirloom. Costs nothing and has far greater emotional value.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#142

Post by gchpaco »

evilduck wrote: post #95
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

I short circuited this and married a geologist. She picked out a cheap diamond ring because diamonds are still "what goes on your wedding ring" but we only spent about $200 on it. Now, the misstep in marrying a geologist is that she owns many other rocks worth much more.

But she probably has a better reason for owning them.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#143

Post by mech4bg »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #124
rayiner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…

Sure, but there are different ways of signaling such things. If someone is so tradition-bound they themselves don't value the relationship itself higher than some specific traditional signaling method then that's typically a strong indicator of their lack of commitment to the relationship. tl;dr if a woman will only love you / stay with you when you buy them expensive things they don't actually love you.

It's easy to say that but that's not how human nature works.

When you buy things for other people, it is generally a positive for your relationship with them. In general, they are happier and think better of you. Getting upset about it and saying they don't 'really love you' is not true and not super helpful.

Human nature is very hard to change, no matter how intelligent / introspective we become. Do you never buy your significant other dinner, a night out, or gifts of any kind?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#144

Post by rdl »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

What do gay people do (in general) for things like this? The most I've seen (with male-male couples) is gold wedding rings; I'm not sure about female couples.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#145

Post by jamesaguilar »

Zimahl wrote: post #134
jamesaguilar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Karma be damned but women as a whole are swayed more by marketing then men are To make a claim like this, I'd normally expect data, not a bunch of anecdotes. Men I know are highly swayed by marketing as well. They want expensive cars, tools, games, alcohol, and other toys. It is hard to reason about the degree to which each is influenced solely from the products that are marketed to them. It is quite a stretch for…

Think of how men are marketed to and you'll see the difference. It's not a name brand or a lifestyle, almost everything marketed to men has some sort of pragmatic function to it. Be it the big F-150 that can tow a ton, to the comfortable (yet fuel efficient!) 4-door sedan. Sport cars might be an exception for most men (although not for me). As much as you don't need it, a $2000 60" HDTV is still more functional than…

Again: would you like to provide anything other than anecdotes? These are worthless to me (and demonstrate your biases fairly obviously, see next paragraph).

I'm amused at your implied claim that men aren't advertised to in fashion, since I can barely turn on the TV or radio without hearing an ad for Men's Wearhouse. Disney absolutely sells the prince metaphor to little boys too, and the fact that they grow into men who wants princesses is a big part of why that whole thing has stuck around so long. And if you think diamond advertisements aren't at least partially to men who don't know their wives and are at a loss for what will please them besides jewelry, then you simply aren't paying attention to the imagery in these ads or the types of shows they get placed on (e.g. the god damn Superbowl).

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#146

Post by shocks »

rayiner wrote: post #115
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…

What about a house? All three covered.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#147

Post by [deleted] »

collypops wrote: post #121
rayiner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…

1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide useless expensive things rather than their willingness to prepare for tough financial times (which are more common at this early stage in family life). 2) See: 1) 3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers that she is shallow enough to respect social standing over more admirable (and important) qualities, unless they're just as shallow.

[deleted]

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#149

Post by mech4bg »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #136
rayiner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…

Honestly, I find the notion of "man as provider" to be perverse, but if I buy into your worldview for a moment... 1) Your wife can measure how much you can provide just as well by having you actually provide valuable things. Like a house. 2) Your wife can measure your unselfishness by having you buy something that is actually valuable to her but useless to you. Like daycations with her friends. There's no sense in bu…

A diamond ring is a signal that is _always_ showing, unlike something like a house. It's a signal to the world that displays someone's wealth, commitment, etc.

This doesn't make it right, but there are numerous human psychology reasons why this tradition endures and so many people take part in it. Writing off people who want or provide a diamond ring as mentally ill (as many people in this thread seem to be doing) is silly.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#150

Post by ChrisNorstrom »

I laughed when MSN published this article last night http://money.msn.com/exchange-traded-fund/diamonds-investors... about diamonds being an "investor's best friend" as it was called on the front page. I can't believe they'd go so low as to publish bullshit like that.

At least now we know where MSN news is getting it's money from.

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