Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars • Hacker News Board

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#121

Post by bluedanieru » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 1:23 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #24

tokenadult wrote: post #10

I wonder how many people are willing to take on the real adventure of living in any of the twenty poorest countries in the world, or twenty most tyrannical countries of the world (there is overlap between the two sets) to try to change those from the inside. When I was in high school, going to a high school that was named after an astronaut just after the first moon landing, I thought it was completely natural to hav…

Not me. We mostly know the solutions to fixing the most oppressed or otherwise defective parts of the world; we just don't find it worthwhile to implement those solutions. I could solve 90% Equatorial Guinea's problems for The solutions to the most defective countries are all pretty straightforward and widely known; it's figuring out how to turn decent but not ideal countries like Pakistan into really stable first-wo…

Take note: this kind of thinking is what being purely an "ideas guy" leads to.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#122

Post by saraid216 » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 1:24 AM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #100

UNANSWERED QUESTION: why mars, what is there that we need? What would I be doing that a robot can't do? Why would I sacrifice my life for a gimmick?

Space colonization is an unmitigated Good Thing for the indefinite future, assuming you're okay with the human species existing after our sun explodes.

Mars is the first step for dealing with that problem.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#123

Post by 18pfsmt » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 1:27 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #119

noonespecial wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very few things that people in power hate more than someone else succeeding at something without consulting them first. I'm afraid you organization would need to be almost all military.

Most of these countries have fairly ineffective militaries, though, so even a lightly armed force could deter them. Blackwater and at least 2 other PMCs in Iraq could hold their own vs. any failed-state force or militia. It wouldn't need to be like the US Army or USAF fielding high-end weapons where a huge tail to tooth ratio came into play.

I realize this is pretty much irrelevant, but I just wanted to point out that Blackwater has changed its name twice, and is now known as Academi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#124

Post by AJ007 » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 1:31 AM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #10

I wonder how many people are willing to take on the real adventure of living in any of the twenty poorest countries in the world, or twenty most tyrannical countries of the world (there is overlap between the two sets) to try to change those from the inside. When I was in high school, going to a high school that was named after an astronaut just after the first moon landing, I thought it was completely natural to hav…

If we do not migrate beyond earth, eventually there will be no more humans to help.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#125

Post by rdl » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 1:48 AM UTC

18pfsmt wrote: post #123

rdl wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these countries have fairly ineffective militaries, though, so even a lightly armed force could deter them. Blackwater and at least 2 other PMCs in Iraq could hold their own vs. any failed-state force or militia. It wouldn't need to be like the US Army or USAF fielding high-end weapons where a huge tail to tooth ratio came into play.

I realize this is pretty much irrelevant, but I just wanted to point out that Blackwater has changed its name twice, and is now known as Academi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi

Even after they renamed the first time (to Xe), all the guys continued wearing Blackwater caps and shirts. Even the nominally-separate Presidential Airways guys were wearing Blackwater clothing with the bear claw logo :)

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#126

Post by desireco42 » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 2:04 AM UTC

rdl wrote: post #120

desireco42 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from Balkans, Balkans conflicts were largely influenced and made worse from the outside, I would even say that they would not happen if there were not desire from Germany and other powers to make as much mess as possible. Somehow Balkan conficts never got critical review from journalists and rosy propaganda stayed even to this day. For example in present day Croatia there is only 7% of people who would actually…

Where would people from Croatia go? All the ones I've met have been either KBR people in Iraq/Afghanistan or people in the US, and they seemed smart, but they were probably outliers. Germany, or US, or elsewhere?

I assume, and Australia, but the point is that no-one likes living in what Balkan turned out to be, not only in Croatia, others as well have similar situation, Bosnia probably has even worse, I happen to remember this number from recent study which is shocking.

My point is that those conflicts were stirred by industrial lobby's, not by genuine need to protect or save anyone.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#127

Post by rdl » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 2:04 AM UTC

brownbat wrote: post #108

rdl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not me. We mostly know the solutions to fixing the most oppressed or otherwise defective parts of the world; we just don't find it worthwhile to implement those solutions. I could solve 90% Equatorial Guinea's problems for The solutions to the most defective countries are all pretty straightforward and widely known; it's figuring out how to turn decent but not ideal countries like Pakistan into really stable first-wo…

> Bringing those places up to standard doesn't really give you anything new, although it does help those people. Putting humans on Mars is something we've never done before, and could lead to amazing technologies and opportunities for humanity. I take issue with this. Technological advancement over the last few millenia has been driven by how many smart minds we have at the table thinking of new ideas and new solutio…

That's the strongest anti-Malthus/population-or-resource-bomb argument. I'm not sure if I ultimately agree with it myself (mainly because of the middle-income trap; I think having marginal SFBA-engineer level people would help advance science, but it's unclear if taking 500mm people from dirt-poor to $5k/yr income helps science, if it stops there, which it often does.)

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#128

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 2:14 AM UTC

brownbat wrote: post #109

zeteo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Making any of the world's poorest countries richer in general, or making any of the world's most oppressed countries freer in general, is [...] a much tougher and more interesting problem, a problem more worthy of a gnarly man willing to risk his life Involving yourself in foreign politics is no substitute for going to Mars. Even if you magically turn Zimbabwe into a political and economic clone of Alabama, the over…

> the overall capabilities and prospects of mankind remain substantially the same I disagree. Advancement is directly related to how many minds we can free up to work on intellectual pursuits. Even before Moore's law, publications and rate of invention largely tracked with size of population (minus the portion preoccupied with agriculture). Going to Mars involves calibrating some rockets and making a sustainable habi…

[deleted]

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#129

Post by desireco42 » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 2:21 AM UTC

I think a lot of you are underestimating (what I read so far in comments) how much risk would people be ready to take.

I would totally take this serious, it isn't convenient to go now for me, but in 10 yrs time, or less, I think this would be something I would really like to do. And I wouldn't be bothered by being confined in small space. However, I already can think of ways to expand that space, so this assumptions are not quite correct. I would probably not live super long due to radiation, but I would accept this for chance to go somewhere no-one had gone before.

I am fairly confident that living on Mars would bring significant discoveries.

Re: Wanted: People Willing to Die on Mars

#130

Post by rdl » Mon, Mar 18, 2013, 2:26 AM UTC

columbo wrote: post #112

mistermann wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Practically speaking, how do you ensure that the new government doesn't become corrupt in a year or two? Or more importantly, how do you restore the people's faith in their government so that they participate? Here's how I'd do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't have to do this t…

> Here's how I'd do it: pass laws specifically forbidding these actions by government officials, the punishment being death. And then when someone violates the law, you kill them. You wouldn't have to do this too many times before the problem magically disappeared. All that would do is wind up killing a bunch of 3rd party candidates and anti-establishment types. You can't simply place a law and then expect it to be 1…

My assertion is that there are different levels of corruption. If EG ended up being just as corrupt as Nigeria after the eliminating of the current regime, it would still be a victory for the people. They might even do better than that.

And maybe structurally changing how oil revenues are handled; not allowing any new leader to directly control them for personal benefit.